Shot string like you’ve never seen

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Hoobilly
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Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Hoobilly »

RiverRat sent me this video today

Showing some excellent video pictures of shot string in waterfowl Shotshells. One of tss 1oz duck load and it’s crazy the difference. Be sure to watch it all. Well worth it

Thanks for sending it to me Mike!


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Dtrkyman
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Dtrkyman »

That Fiocchi load sure looks good, really consistant wad! No idea how it translates in performance? How fast is one of pellets covering 10 feet, hopefully they will do the math and see how long it takes the whole string to hit the target!

Probably not a big deal shooting a turkey, but really interesting for wing shooting!
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Hoobilly »

Dtrkyman wrote: September 24th, 2022, 9:36 pm That Fiocchi load sure looks good, really consistant wad! No idea how it translates in performance? How fast is one of pellets covering 10 feet, hopefully they will do the math and see how long it takes the whole string to hit the target!

Probably not a big deal shooting a turkey, but really interesting for wing shooting!
Yep that was impressive. Bismuth from Boss not so much
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Riverrat »

Hoobilly wrote: September 24th, 2022, 8:35 pm RiverRat sent me this video today

Showing some excellent video pictures of shot string in waterfowl Shotshells. One of tss 1oz duck load and it’s crazy the difference. Be sure to watch it all. Well worth it

Thanks for sending it to me Mike!


Your very much welcome Brice. I thought it would be educational.
Last edited by Riverrat on September 25th, 2022, 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lacire
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Lacire »

Really interesting, I remember reading about Bob Brister using his car to show the effects of the shot string back in the late 70’s. Looking forward to seeing the other videos on this. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by decoykrvr »

Great video and information. I met Bob Brister and was introduced to his ground-breaking studies in the 70's, and I hope Joel Strickland continues this work by evaluating the other small gauges. Brister said, "The 28 gauge shoots better than it should.", and hopefully Strickland can show us just why.
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by SteveRoseRAS »

Lacire wrote: September 25th, 2022, 12:26 am Really interesting, I remember reading about Bob Brister using his car to show the effects of the shot string back in the late 70’s. Looking forward to seeing the other videos on this. Thanks for sharing.
I remember that ... so I went looking for a video of Brister's tow behind pattern board tests. Only found this picture:
Image
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Hoobilly »

decoykrvr wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:10 am Great video and information. I met Bob Brister and was introduced to his ground-breaking studies in the 70's, and I hope Joel Strickland continues this work by evaluating the other small gauges. Brister said, "The 28 gauge shoots better than it should.", and hopefully Strickland can show us just why.
SteveRoseRAS wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:48 am
Lacire wrote: September 25th, 2022, 12:26 am Really interesting, I remember reading about Bob Brister using his car to show the effects of the shot string back in the late 70’s. Looking forward to seeing the other videos on this. Thanks for sharing.
I remember that ... so I went looking for a video of Brister's tow behind pattern board tests. Only found this picture:
Image
I’ve never heard of him doing that. Would love to see that video
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by decoykrvr »

Bob Brister was the gun editor for Field and Stream magazine when I heard him speak on his book, Shotgunning the Art and Science, in the late 70's. A very good, knowledgeable and funny, speaker, Bob remarked that the real hero of his shot string experiments was his wife who was driving the family station wagon which was towing the trailer with the targets mounted on them at speeds to approximate the speed of game birds or clay targets, and at longer distances he actually led the targets by swinging through his wife at the wheel of the car. Bob remarked that, "If she saw the experiment from my perspective, she wouldn't have driven the car. I was in absolutely no danger." I was just getting into 28 gauge shotguns when I met Bob, and he really got fired up when I told him I had recently received a Miroku, Chas Daly, O/U on a true 28 gauge frame from my father-in-law for Christmas and was picking his brain about loads, reloading, leads, etc., over drinks. Bob talked about altering chokes, especially on tightly choked European shotguns, and altering POA/POI. I was lucky to have been able to meet and converse w/ that true Texas Gentleman on several occasions and always left filled with new knowledge on hunting, shooting, and shotgun performance. His books and articles are timeless.
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Hoobilly »

decoykrvr wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:02 pm Bob Brister was the gun editor for Field and Stream magazine when I heard him speak on his book, Shotgunning the Art and Science, in the late 70's. A very good, knowledgeable and funny, speaker, Bob remarked that the real hero of his shot string experiments was his wife who was driving the family station wagon which was towing the trailer with the targets mounted on them at speeds to approximate the speed of game birds or clay targets, and at longer distances he actually led the targets by swinging through his wife at the wheel of the car. Bob remarked that, "If she saw the experiment from my perspective, she wouldn't have driven the car. I was in absolutely no danger." I was just getting into 28 gauge shotguns when I met Bob, and he really got fired up when I told him I had recently received a Miroku, Chas Daly, O/U on a true 28 gauge frame from my father-in-law for Christmas and was picking his brain about loads, reloading, leads, etc., over drinks. Bob talked about altering chokes, especially on tightly choked European shotguns, and altering POA/POI. I was lucky to have been able to meet and converse w/ that true Texas Gentleman on several occasions and always left filled with new knowledge on hunting, shooting, and shotgun performance. His books and articles are timeless.
Tags good memories. I also love learning from those who have firsthand knowledge and share their experiences and excitement
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patternfreak
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by patternfreak »

I don't think it matters. See below from Boss

The difference is negligible. Even with a 12’ shot string vs a 6’ one, the difference in all pellets arriving at the target at 40 yards only takes about .006 seconds longer with the longer string.
Statistically speaking…That time difference is insignificant. A bird flying at 40mph moves approx 58 fps. The difference of the longer shot string acting upon a 58fps bird only makes the effective shot string about 4” longer using 1000fps as the velocity at 40 yards.
I don’t think that is “long enough” to provide any “handicap” for weaker shooters. Conversely, I don’t think a shorter string makes a shell significantly better.
My takeaway is that it’s really damn hard to put a mass of pellets onto a moving target regardless of the shot string when you look at the math……
6’ for tungsten, 8’ for steel, 10 for lead, 12 for bismuth. The numbers seem staggering when compared to each other but again, when the column is traveling at 1000+ fps the actual time from the first to last pellet is insignificant for trying to shoot relatively slow moving objects.
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by Hoobilly »

patternfreak wrote: September 27th, 2022, 3:36 pm I don't think it matters. See below from Boss

The difference is negligible. Even with a 12’ shot string vs a 6’ one, the difference in all pellets arriving at the target at 40 yards only takes about .006 seconds longer with the longer string.
Statistically speaking…That time difference is insignificant. A bird flying at 40mph moves approx 58 fps. The difference of the longer shot string acting upon a 58fps bird only makes the effective shot string about 4” longer using 1000fps as the velocity at 40 yards.
I don’t think that is “long enough” to provide any “handicap” for weaker shooters. Conversely, I don’t think a shorter string makes a shell significantly better.
My takeaway is that it’s really damn hard to put a mass of pellets onto a moving target regardless of the shot string when you look at the math……
6’ for tungsten, 8’ for steel, 10 for lead, 12 for bismuth. The numbers seem staggering when compared to each other but again, when the column is traveling at 1000+ fps the actual time from the first to last pellet is insignificant for trying to shoot relatively slow moving objects.
I agree to a point. But a long shot string at further distances can mean the difference is fewer pellets on a duck. The biggest difference is the type of shot used in my honest opinion
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decoykrvr
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by decoykrvr »

I've still got a substantial stash of the old Remington green hull 3", and 3 1/2", Hevi-shot shells, which I think was one of the best killing and patterning shells which I have ever shot at waterfowl. Before the introduction of the Hevi-shot MagBlends and 6's and 7's, it was my preferred turkey shell and accounted for a lot of gobblers. Last year while gearing up for a field goose shoot, I ran the math on the Remington 3 1/2", 1300 fps and 1250 fps shells to determine variances of lead at 40 yards on a goose flying 40 mph. Interestingly, their was very little difference in the 40 yard impact time which, in theory, necessitated a 4" increase in the lead. With a proper lead this difference was obviated by the shot string. While hunting, I was explaining my math and results for the various shells to my friends, and when asked why I went to that trouble, I explained that my faith, confidence and knowledge of the performance in my equipment, esp. the ammunition, is a vital component of my shooting "mental game/state". I learned a long time ago the vast differences in ammunition performance and variability in different firearms. The current hype on high velocity in shot shells, esp/ waterfowl loads, has been greatly over rated and in many cases results in blown down range patterns. Since its commercial availability, I've bought the Boss waterfowl shells in several gauges and shot sizes and their testing, evaluation, and performance has proven itself in the field which is coupled w/ the best customer service in the industry. I was talking w/ Randy Wakeman recently and we both agreed that it was very illuminating to deal with a company, Boss, which made their product information so readily available as opposed to Environ-Metal (Hevi-Shot) which has disseminated hype and complete lies about their products, performance, and components and continues this trend with no discernible change forthcoming.
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Re: Shot string like you’ve never seen

Post by patternfreak »

Hoobilly wrote: September 27th, 2022, 10:17 pmI agree to a point. But a long shot string at further distances can mean the difference is fewer pellets on a duck. The biggest difference is the type of shot used in my honest opinion
Using the same math from above, if the 12' long shot string takes .006 seconds longer to get to the target and the target is moving at 58fps, that means the duck only moves 0.348 ft or 4 inches in the time it takes for the back of the shot string to impact the target

If your pattern is 30" wide at 40 yards, I don't see that 4" mattering in performance

My opinion is that the shot string length is not a point of discussion. What I have noticed is that shells with shorter shot columns, tss for example, or even a lighter steel load, tend to put a larger percentage of pellets on target than those that are loaded to the max with a tall shot column. I think a shorter stack of pellets in the hull improves downrange performance which is why the heavier density shot types shine.

I will say that footage is simply amazing, and I'm glad someone cares enough to put this much time into it. FYI, Boss is the company that helped with the filming of that video
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