LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

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redarrow
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LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by redarrow » February 5th, 2020, 8:32 pm

I can’t find the article /post I read yesterday about the LBL cancelling the Quota and youth hunts this year Seems that some hunters were claiming the early hunts had the birds spooked to the point the regular season hunters didn’t have a chance .Anyone heard about this ?
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Southern Sportsman
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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Southern Sportsman » February 5th, 2020, 9:08 pm

Sounds like a rumor that likely isn’t true. Not questioning you, just your source. I will be really, really surprised if anyone signed off on canceling a youth hunt and two, two-day quotas on federal public land because people whined about public land birds being spooked. That place is > 160,000 acres. The birds can be tough, no doubt. But there are plenty of them and the handful of quota hunts aren't what makes them tough.

That said, the application still isn’t available online and it usually runs through the month of February.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

Chrmayo
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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Chrmayo » February 5th, 2020, 9:28 pm

Do you guys normally hunt there? Tn or ky side? Heard it was hard hunting but I’m not far from there at all

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Southern Sportsman » February 5th, 2020, 10:33 pm

I try to make it up there once or twice a year. TN side. The ridges and rock bed creeks are an enjoyable change of pace from the river bottoms I frequent. It can be tough, but there are birds to be found and lots of room to roam.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Shooter » February 5th, 2020, 10:57 pm

I used to hunt there a couple times a year, but now that I have birds here, I have not been in years.
Have not heard of any change, but have not been lookin either.
Love that place, and the camping. Just glad we never ran into the LBL Monster!
Father and I camped out a few times in the same camp that the slaughters took place.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Realwarrior » February 5th, 2020, 10:59 pm

This is the message that I got.
Hey AJ,

Sorry, but there will be no turkey quota hunt this year.

Thanks,

Brian Lewis
Forest Service
Land Between the Lakes National Recreation Area

p: 270-924-2171
william.b.lewis@usda.gov
100 Van Morgan Drive
Golden Pond, KY 42211
www.fs.fed.us

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Southern Sportsman » February 6th, 2020, 12:46 pm

Wow. I stand corrected. I wont really have a problem with it as long as they still have some type of open seasons. The quota hunt tags haven’t been “bonus” birds the last couple years anyway.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by SweetTalk77 » February 6th, 2020, 2:45 pm

So does anyone have information as to opening up on Kentucky`s normal opening date? I have heard that it was opening the 17 of April.. the day before Kentucky`s start date for Turkey season.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Realwarrior » February 6th, 2020, 3:55 pm

A turkey season brochure will not be produced for 2020. Furthermore, there will be no draw hunt this turkey season. At the request of many turkey hunters, we will not conduct a turkey draw hunt this season in order to give all turkey hunters an equal opportunity to enjoy a traditional opening day experience. Many turkey hunters expressed an interest in hunting fresh uneducated birds. We are suspending the turkey draw this season to provide this unique experience. Points accumulated in previous seasons will carry over to next season when we return to normal draw hunts.
Kentucky Turkey Hunt Season April 18-30, 2020
Tennessee Hunt Season April 18-23, 2020 and April 24-30, 2020

https://www.landbetweenthelakes.us/seen ... c/hunting/
***Go to bottom of page, click on "Turkey Hunting" Tab

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Southern Sportsman » February 6th, 2020, 6:32 pm

The quota vs. non-quota is not a huge deal to me. But this justification is stupid. If so many people wanted an “opportunity to enjoy the traditional opening day experience,” why the hell didn't they just apply for the hunt? It’s 100% draw with 1 priority point and a $5 fee. Seems like everyone already had an “equal opportunity.” But lets appease the whiners?
Last edited by Southern Sportsman on February 6th, 2020, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Whitetail140 » February 6th, 2020, 9:19 pm

I live 15mins from lbl no quota hint and what really pisses me off is no youth hunt! I mean really!

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Southern Sportsman » February 6th, 2020, 11:06 pm

The whole “trying to give everyone an opportunity for unpressured birds” excuse is bull****. They are doing it to push back the date on which gobblers start getting killed in hopes of improving breeding/nesting success. It’s been discussed a lot on the state level. LBL is big enough to offer a good sample as an experiment, but the state agencies don’t have to deal with the pushback that will come with a statewide change in season dates. Pushing back the start date is something I fully support statewide. But I’m surprised this is the best explanation they could come up with for LBL.
Last edited by Southern Sportsman on February 6th, 2020, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by jdjnicholson » February 6th, 2020, 11:06 pm

Whitetail140 wrote:I live 15mins from lbl no quota hint and what really pisses me off is no youth hunt! I mean really!
The big kids get what they want

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by joey46 » February 7th, 2020, 6:47 am

Unbelievable, even the Youth Hunt? - I lived on Kentucky Lake for nine years in the Fairdealing/Benton area (1996 - 2004). I would hunt LBL almost every day of the open season or until I took the one bird Kentucky LBL limit. The last week of the season was often better than the first for no reason other than that the pressure was off. The year I moved a neighbor and I took a nice bird (his first) on the last Saturday of LBL's season. Birds were still gobbling and active. I can't imagine how a big influx of hunters hitting the area in one fell swoop will be "hunting unpressured birds". Anyone that hunts LBL knows there are no "secret spots" and just about everyone has a 4 wheel drive. IMO KY's biggest mistake, hunting pressure wise, was going to the Saturday opener. Years ago the KY general season opened on April 15th. If that was a Tuesday or Wednesday so be it. Spread the pressure and the crowds. Not the first time the KY whiners have got their way. Jeez! It will be a "unique LBL experience". Good luck finding a parking space.
BTW - did anyone consider simply reducing the number of hunters drawn for a youth or quota hunt?? Duh. :roll: Picture from 1991 - my LBL first. Quota hunt. Lived in OH at the time. Drove 456 miles to get there. At the time was well worth it. Picture taken at the Golden Pond check station.
Image
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LBL - First Bird.jpg

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Realwarrior » February 7th, 2020, 12:50 pm

I've put in for the draw hunt for 28 years and knew that I would get drawn every other year. They pandered to those that didn't want to play by the rules by changing the game. The rumblings are that the KY - NWTF supported it. I've asked for clarification from them but can't get a response.... The silence is deafening.... I asked LBL if the closure was scientific bases or pandering to special interests .. This decision was not opened for public debate and was not a decision based on the scientific environmental conservation plan. I'm getting ready to submit a FOIA request, to serve as the basis for a formal IG complaint concerning this and another issue at LBL that they have defiantly prohibited, when it goes against the USFS directive and Federal Law. As a retired military member and disabled veteran, I have the opportunity hi hunt, with preference at Ft Campbell & Ft Knox and Ft Campbell opens in March. But it's a shame that they claim we need more hunters but the cut opportunities, especially for the youth hunts. I'm also a retired Fed Leo that at one time worked for the USFS and they have no qualms of making their own rules as they go along.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Southern Sportsman » February 7th, 2020, 1:24 pm

NWTF Representatives appeared last year at the TN fish and wildlife commission meeting when they were setting seasons. They strenuously argued (with scientific data from their biologists) that we need to push back season dates, among other changes. We start hunting well before the average date for nest initiation. At one time that wasn't a huge deal. But with modern hunting tactics, dominant birds with harems of hens are the first to go - killed charging a strutter decoy in an effort to defend the hens they would otherwise breed. Nesting rates are down, poult recruitment is down, and populations are falling in many areas.

So the NWTF and their biologists are on record pushing for later start dates. This LBL thing accomplishes that goal, regardless of what excuse they give for it. The explanation given is illogical for several reasons. I don’t buy it.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Opie » February 7th, 2020, 2:15 pm

I spoke with the NWTF biologist that works with LBL today. He was just as blindsided by the decision as everybody else. He talked with the main guy for LBL and got the same answer as everybody else has gotten.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Realwarrior » February 7th, 2020, 2:23 pm

An easy remedy to that argument is to adjust the season dates. Or go back to half day hunts. Those are scientific based. The other thing (LBL) specific, is to open more areas to trapping.
Here's what I surmise, Just my opinion.... You have a group of LBL employees that are turkey hunters and but getting rid of the quote hunts and opening the same as Kentucky and later than Tennessee, you have eliminated a large portion of the pressure. I have hunted there since TVA days when Rick Fox and Steve Bloemer were TVA biologists and great guys.
Think about it.... Does this not give those that are on LBL a vested interest. Because I can tell you this, the Federal Government would not have turned down those $5 fees and Hunter use permit fees without a personal stake.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by joey46 » February 7th, 2020, 3:47 pm

A true cluster f##k. Too bad a really good area will pay the price. Contacted an old Benton area neighbor. Nobody has a clue what is going on.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by joey46 » February 7th, 2020, 3:47 pm

.oops. Double post.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by SwampDrummin » February 8th, 2020, 1:50 am

Opie wrote:
February 7th, 2020, 2:15 pm
I spoke with the NWTF biologist that works with LBL today. He was just as blindsided by the decision as everybody else. He talked with the main guy for LBL and got the same answer as everybody else has gotten.
My first thought was that they pulled the plug because of low bird numbers. I put in last year but after talking to some staff I was less than psyched. They had a couple bad hatches in a row and looking at past harvest data it seemed to me that the area was kinda at that point where if they didn’t have a good one soon then the area would enter “the dark ages”. If you look at the harvest data things really dropped off in recent years, I might have had to ask the staff for those figures now that I think about it. Anyways, It didn’t surprise me when I heard it was cancelled but the mystery as to who/why is puzzling.

And for any of you have never seen the “dark ages”, you should count yourself lucky. I saw this happen at at 5000 acre club in Dallas county Alabama. After a couple localized wet/cold springs, a biologist said that we had two virtually zero hatches in that area followed by a very poor one. It went from a club that six hunters could all get on different birds in one morning to one where a single gobble was heard in a single season. I still think about that one gobble.....

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by joey46 » February 8th, 2020, 6:24 am

Got some more intel from a close by Marshall County resident. His feedback is that the area is severely underfunded to the point there are only five total LEOs to patrol this vast acreage plus the interior roads are now so poorly maintained that some are impassible. Yes there have been some bad hatches but that is normally handled by reducing hunting days and bag limits. I'm assuming the TN section still allows two total LBL birds in its two segment hunt. If so that's another easy fix. Caving in to whiners, if true, sets a bad precedent that will come back to bite them. Still hard to believe they included the youth hunt in this debacle. Youth hunts are normally sacred. Let's see what happens to this falls deer hunts. If I remember all the gun hunts were quota hunts and only bow had an open non-quota time period. At least now there will be many eyes on them. Won't hurt. To add - agree 100% on the trapping comment. When I last hunted LBL it had the biggest population of coyote I have ever witnessed. On almost every turkey hunt we would get one or two that tried to slip in to calling and decoys. Almost scary at times walking back to the boat or truck in the dark after an afternoon deer bow hunt when one yip would turn into two then be joined by dozens more then total silence. Eeek.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by deerhunt1988 » February 9th, 2020, 7:57 am

Realwarrior wrote:
February 7th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Or go back to half day hunts. Those are scientific based.
Please post the scientific evidence of half-day hunts.

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Whitetail140 » February 9th, 2020, 11:01 am

Joey 46 I’m a Benton ky man myself and I can’t believe they done away with the youth hunt!! I took my family to the nature station last year they had a seminar on coyotes the biologist said that they estimated 500 coyotes in the land between the lakes!! I laughed out loud! I said per how many acres he said in the entire lbl I said That was the dumbest thing I heard all week! If u shoot a deer over there let it lay for 3 hrs there will be nothing more than a carcass left! They don’t have a clue how many coyotes or hogs they have!! It could be so much better over there somebody is putting all the money that is brought in over there in there pocket! If there hurting that bad why not make the bicyclist buy a 20$ permit like us hunters do!!

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Re: LBL Quota Hunt And Youth Hunt Cancelled .

Post by Realwarrior » February 17th, 2020, 11:05 am

deerhunt1988 wrote:
February 9th, 2020, 7:57 am
Realwarrior wrote:
February 7th, 2020, 2:23 pm
Or go back to half day hunts. Those are scientific based.
.
please post the scientific evidence of half-day hunts
You can Google : Proceedings of the National Wild Turkey Symposium. https://www.google.com/search?client=ms ... 0Symposium

Part of the jist is that 40 %-60% of nests are destroyed and 6%-20% are abandoned, furthermore the harvesting of hens (legal or illegal) ran 5%- 20%. 20% was high in one segment of a Virginia study. As turkey populations expanded harvest rates went up in states allowing all day hunting and the % of hen harvest went up as well. Missouri was noted (& more studies done in Missouri) that the population increased but harvest remained pretty constant. A correlation was made and noted in the Connecticut and a Missouri study between human disturbance and nest abandonment. The study in Missouri looked at the feasibility of All day hunting. The outcome was that because seasons are set for Median nesting dates , in the middle to later part of the season more hens are nesting and on the nest longer, by taking human disturbance out of the field at noon/1pm there was less chance of flushing hens off of the nest or hens being poached and therefore loosing the hen and the nest. Also the research shows that only 6%-10% of hens that loose or abandon their nests, renest.
Furthermore, in states that went from half day hunting to all day hunting, they're was a marked Spike in harvest. Unfortunately there was no research that tracked time of harvest, so was it the increase in population or hunting hours available or both.
So by reducing the hunting hours available you reduce the harvest and reduce the abandonment and harvesting of hens. If you look at harvest numbers for individual states, keep in mind the # of hunters and weather conditions for that season, as well as estimated preseason populations.

Https://northernwoodlands.org/outside_s ... urkey-nest

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... cpc6ugFv5Q

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1952594240
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3802192?seq=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1952594240

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