Use Enough Gun

Talk about 20, 16, & 28 gauge and .410 bore shotguns here.
decoykrvr
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Use Enough Gun

Post by decoykrvr » January 31st, 2020, 9:51 am

One of my favorite authors is Robert Ruark and his admonishment and book, "Use enough gun". It is with great interest that I am reading about the move to 410 shotguns due to the availability of TSS, and since I started reloading TSS have essentially converted to a 20 gauge after 38 years of hunting turkeys w/ 12's and even a bunch of 10's. A friend who has successfully hunted gobblers w/ a 410 and I were discussing the limitations of a 410 and came to the conclusion that of the 6 gobblers which we killed together last year on a trip out west, only 2 of the gobblers could have been killed w/ a 410 w/ TSS. Granted, we were hunting large open areas, much different than our mountainous wooded home territory. The majority of turkey hunters on this forum will not obtain a 410 shotgun, and box of TSS shells, and head to the woods hunting, but the members of this forum are not representative of the turkey hunting masses. I was in a sporting goods store last week and watched and listened as two novice turkey hunters discussed purchasing a 410 single shot turkey gun, then began perusing the available 410 lead shell offerings. I felt compelled to interject myself into their conversation, and pointed out that the 410 was only a viable turkey hunting option w/ TSS shotshells and both were "shell shocked" at the price of available TSS loads. Over the years, I have shot and patterned almost every commercial turkey load which promised better performance and reloaded turkey loads in 3 different gauges, and have probably patterned at least 50+ shells for every one shot at a gobbler. Like a lot of folks on this forum, I enjoy trying to maximize the performance of my shotguns and to increase my hunting success by doing so, but we are not representative of the majority of turkey hunters. A lot of turkey hunters will secomb to the marketing hype, buy a box of TSS, and never or minimally pattern the $6-$10 shells before heading to the woods. Without trying to sound like a bunch of "know it alls", it behoves us and our love of the sport to try and work with and educate the other hunters who may not have the knowledge, experience, and commitment to turkey hunting which we possess. Please excuse my ramblings.

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hoobilly
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by hoobilly » January 31st, 2020, 10:18 am

no need to excuse your ramblings as I agree with you. social media has made the 410 into a monster. many who started with the 410 years ago with TSS who have done the hard work now has to sit back and watch how big companies sell mediocre loads (federal) to newbies and they will shoot one or two then go hunt. I hope that they don't start losing wounded gobblers due to this.

One guy said he shot a gobbler stone dead at 73 yards on Facebook with 10's

I find that appalling

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by davisd9 » January 31st, 2020, 10:39 am

hoobilly wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 10:18 am


One guy said he shot a gobbler stone dead at 73 yards on Facebook with 10's

Shooting 73 yards at a turkey regardless of the gun or load is appalling.

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hoobilly
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by hoobilly » January 31st, 2020, 10:47 am

davisd9 wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 10:39 am
hoobilly wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 10:18 am


One guy said he shot a gobbler stone dead at 73 yards on Facebook with 10's

Shooting 73 yards at a turkey regardless of the gun or load is appalling.
I can understand of someone misjudged yardage. but to read on social media the they did it on purpose with a 410 using 10's is crazy

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by timbrhuntr » January 31st, 2020, 11:04 am

I have talked to many hunters both older and younger mostly using 12 gauges and many had no issue with flinging lead at a turkey that wouldn't commit to coming closer. They just shrugged and said hey maybe I get lucky and if not its just a bird :(

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by guesswho » January 31st, 2020, 11:05 am

I should be ok. My fudge factor is backwards. I'll misjudge 30 for forty, but never 40 for 30, and let him walk. Now y'all have me second guessing my decision to go to a 410. I hope I don't have to break out the big 20 again.
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by kythunter » January 31st, 2020, 11:13 am

Well said guys. Social media has blown up the "tss craze".
Man a lot has changed in the past 2-3 years especially after tss started being mass produced.
I started researching the best shot available way back in 2014 lol and ran across #9 pixie dust forums. I was on GN for about a year before I started loading back in 2015.
It was like an underground club that most turkey hunters didn't know about now a lot of fb guys are on the tss band wagon.
I will continue to load my own and it was much better before it went main stream.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by kythunter » January 31st, 2020, 11:16 am

Well said guys.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by timbrhuntr » January 31st, 2020, 11:18 am

guesswho wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 11:05 am
I should be ok. My fudge factor is backwards. I'll misjudge 30 for forty, but never 40 for 30, and let him walk. Now y'all have me second guessing my decision to go to a 410. I hope I don't have to break out the big 20 again.
Did you run out of rocks to throw at them when they trip over their many beards right in front of you :toothy7:

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davisd9
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by davisd9 » January 31st, 2020, 11:20 am

hoobilly wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 10:47 am
davisd9 wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 10:39 am
hoobilly wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 10:18 am


One guy said he shot a gobbler stone dead at 73 yards on Facebook with 10's

Shooting 73 yards at a turkey regardless of the gun or load is appalling.
I can understand of someone misjudged yardage. but to read on social media the they did it on purpose with a 410 using 10's is crazy

It is really hard to misjudge to 73 yards. I shoot to 50 and i have seen situations were 60 looked like 50, but not 70.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by bushangler » January 31st, 2020, 11:25 am

I must have skipped class the day they were teaching how cool it is to shoot a turkey at long ranges. Probably the same day they they taught about all the new shot technology.

I’ve hunted with a 20ga for nearly 20years I’ve killed way more than my share of birds and I have yet to use a “turkey” load. High brass number lead 6’s kill birds more than dead enough for me.


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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Hognutz » January 31st, 2020, 11:29 am

“A man has got to know his limitations”!!
That’s it in a nutshell! If you’ve got a 60 yard setup or a 20 yarder.
Most everyone will push the limits. Whether they admit it or not.
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by hoobilly » January 31st, 2020, 12:00 pm

Hognutz wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 11:29 am
“A man has got to know his limitations”!!
That’s it in a nutshell! If you’ve got a 60 yard setup or a 20 yarder.
Most everyone will push the limits. Whether they admit it or not.
JMHO
Absolutely

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Southern Sportsman » January 31st, 2020, 12:09 pm

You are right, no doubt. I like hunting with with a .410 some, but I don’t do it all the time. I love hand loading since I started in 2013. Whatever gun I carry is going to be loaded with the best TSS load combo I can come up with. Which means when I have my 12 gauge I know positively, absolutely if he comes inside 60 I can kill him. MOST of the time, I keep my composure, remember that it’s a whole hell of a lot more fun to wait until he’s 30, and I wait. But occasionally I break nervous or get too excited or maybe lustful. I’ve killed few close to 60. They are just as dead but every time I feel a twinge of regret. I think I’m better than that. Carrying a .410 forces me to do what I really want to do - get them close or acknowledge that they won.

But I absolutely wish they had not started selling .410 Tss loads commercially. It’s just becoming trendy/“cool” for people to say they hunt with a .410. Many will never actually pattern their guns but will assume they can kill turkeys at 50 because TSS is magic.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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guesswho
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by guesswho » January 31st, 2020, 12:46 pm

timbrhuntr wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 11:18 am
Did you run out of rocks to throw at them when they trip over their many beards right in front of you :toothy7:
No, still plenty of rocks. They just got to heavy.
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Turkinator » January 31st, 2020, 3:16 pm

I bought my 301 at a local gun shop. The proprietor told me all the glowing things about these “new turkey 410s” He never mentioned tss. I’m going to keep my 410s for the chilluns to start with. But I see no reason to stop carrying my 20ga. All the newbie hype has took the cool factor out of it.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Buckeye3405 » January 31st, 2020, 4:55 pm

I’ve been turkey hunting in the hills of eastern Ohio since 1994. I’ve shot dozens of turkeys here. I’ve never shot one over 40 yards and very few over 35. I like to call em and I like to run and gun to get them close. I’m on the .410 bandwagon this season because I know I can kill one at the ranges I shoot with the right setup. Aftermarket choke, different loads etc til I get it right.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by decoykrvr » February 1st, 2020, 10:16 am

Buckeye,
You've just hit the nail on the head. Your going to work w/ your shotgun to maximize its effectiveness, know its limitations, and go to the field w/ predetermined shooting parameters. My greatest concern w/ a lot of hunters who are trying TSS for the first time is that the cost of the shells will preclude the experimentation, shooting, patterning, and familiarity which are all essential to minimize crippling and loss and that their preconceived thoughts about the effective range and lethality of the shot will encourage shots which should not be taken especially by folks who not only don't know their hunting tools, but are clueless on range estimation.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Gar Commander » February 1st, 2020, 10:59 am

I will stick with my single barrel 10 gauge with a scope on it. Yall's birds must be easier to kill than these Mississippi birds we have. These rookies carrying .410's will learn a lesson the hard way.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Buckeye3405 » February 1st, 2020, 7:17 pm

decoykrvr wrote:
February 1st, 2020, 10:16 am
Buckeye,
You've just hit the nail on the head. Your going to work w/ your shotgun to maximize its effectiveness, know its limitations, and go to the field w/ predetermined shooting parameters. My greatest concern w/ a lot of hunters who are trying TSS for the first time is that the cost of the shells will preclude the experimentation, shooting, patterning, and familiarity which are all essential to minimize crippling and loss and that their preconceived thoughts about the effective range and lethality of the shot will encourage shots which should not be taken especially by folks who not only don't know their hunting tools, but are clueless on range estimation.

I agree completely!

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by hookedspur » February 2nd, 2020, 9:52 pm

Make sure you know your gun and put the payload on target

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by deerhunt1988 » February 2nd, 2020, 11:49 pm

But shooting a .410 or 20ga is now the cool thing to do! Just waiting on the days noobs start chastising me for still shooting a 12. Already get hints of it.

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by GLS » February 3rd, 2020, 7:24 am

The late Kenny Morgan killed a pile of turkeys with a .410 SXS as the story goes. And he shot lead. As Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story is interesting. He is said to have placed a cork between the front and rear triggers and pulled the first one so that both barrels would simultaneously fire. I've carried both a .410 and 20 over the years and like both. They sure beat dragging a 10 or 12 ga. through the woods.

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hoobilly
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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by hoobilly » February 3rd, 2020, 7:47 am

deerhunt1988 wrote:
February 2nd, 2020, 11:49 pm
But shooting a .410 or 20ga is now the cool thing to do! Just waiting on the days noobs start chastising me for still shooting a 12. Already get hints of it.
I don’t know where you been but the 20 was cool starting about 18-20 years ago. Several started using it as their go to gun way back. I did after shooting the Hevi7 duckloads in my sons 870 youth when he was 9. All the lead 20ga turkey loads were barely 30 yard shells. When I shot the Hevi7 at 40 it hit in the 140-150’s

That gun and then the Beretta AL391 I bought later that summer became definite turkey killers. The Beretta we still use today.

410’s were being used 10+ years ago by a select few who broke the ice with tss. Took a while for the gun companies to figure it out.
Question for everyone.. which gun company made the first dedicated turkey 410?

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Re: Use Enough Gun

Post by Turkinator » February 3rd, 2020, 9:41 am

I didn’t start shooting a 20 for the cool factor, it was the efficiency factor that I saw.

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