Nickel plated lead

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coconut
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Nickel plated lead

Post by coconut » January 4th, 2018, 11:21 am

Is it more effective on turkeys than plain lead shot? I read that it patterns better but haven’t ever shot a turkey with it.

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turkeyinstrut
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by turkeyinstrut » January 4th, 2018, 11:36 am

I shoot nickel plated 5 1/2's in my Knight TK2000 muzzleloading shotgun and yes it does pattern considerably better than just plain lead or copper plated shot, that nickel plating is very hard, harder than the copper plating.

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GLS
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by GLS » January 5th, 2018, 7:49 am

Decades ago, I got my hands on some nickle-plated shot from Italy and compared patterns between it and Winchester Lubaloy copper-plated shot, same size, and the Italian shot out patterned the Winchester shot by a noticeable difference. I don't know if it was the nickle plating that made the difference or whether it was truer round or harder alloy than the Winchester, but it was better. Gil

RaspyD
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by RaspyD » January 5th, 2018, 8:43 am

The ACTIV shells from back in the day were nickel plated lead...saw quite a few turkeys die from some serious head and neck trauma from those loads.

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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by howl » January 5th, 2018, 8:56 am

Nickel patterned better, but it was hard to say whether it killed better when a relative few made it into the bones. I never smoked one with 3" nickel 5s in the early '90s like I did with 3.5" copper 6s in the early '10s.

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turkeyinstrut
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by turkeyinstrut » January 5th, 2018, 9:21 am

The nickel plated shot I am using came from BP, they take a chilled lead shot and add a copper coating and then the nickel plating. the size that I am using (#5 1/2) is a #6 plated with .004" nickel coating which gives you a true #5 1/2 at .114 dia.

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Spuriosity
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by Spuriosity » January 5th, 2018, 9:42 am

Definite maybe. Depends on the underlying shot. I would much prefer unplated magnum grade (ie high antimony) to Ni plated chilled (ie low antimony) shot. As long as the underlying pellet is very round and hardened with sufficient antimony, then adding Ni or Cu plating will improve patterns. But some mfgs start with inferior chilled shot, add Ni plating, and charge a huge premium.

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turkeyinstrut
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by turkeyinstrut » January 5th, 2018, 9:55 am

RaspyD wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 8:43 am
The ACTIV shells from back in the day were nickel plated lead...saw quite a few turkeys die from some serious head and neck trauma from those loads.
I shot the ACTIV shells for several years and killed many birds with them but several years ago I was out in Missouri hunting and shot a bird in a field one morning and watched him fly off :turkeywave: , he was about 37 yards and walking straight towards me when I shot and maybe if he had of been turned sideways I would have killed him but who knows. I had taken birds with them as far as 52 yards before without any problem. NOW I'll tell you the rest of that hunting story, my buddy was sitting in the truck on the next ridge watching that gobbler through a pair of binoculars when I shot so when I made it back to the truck he ask me if I had shot a bird over in that field and my reply was "I didn't shoot no bird" cause I was still pissed off about it. He asked me again....did you just shoot a bird over in that field and me being really aggravated by this point said.....YEA I JUST SHOT A BIRD OVER IN THAT FIELD AND WATCHED HIM FLY OFF....and his reply was..I was sitting here watching him when you shot and he only went about 100 yards around that point and looked like he ran into a brick wall and went straight down and we can find him.....WELLLL you talk about a feller cheering up real quick I did. To make a long story shorter....we drove around above where I had shot the bird and looked for it for 6 hours and never did find it, When I made it back to WV the first thing I did was order a 3 1/2" 11-87 and sold all the ACTIV shells I had....But I really don't think I can blame that on the shells. :banghead:

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turkeyinstrut
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by turkeyinstrut » January 5th, 2018, 9:59 am

Spuriosity wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:42 am
Definite maybe. Depends on the underlying shot. I would much prefer unplated magnum grade (ie high antimony) to Ni plated chilled (ie low antimony) shot. As long as the underlying pellet is very round and hardened with sufficient antimony, then adding Ni or Cu plating will improve patterns. But some mfgs start with inferior chilled shot, add Ni plating, and charge a huge premium.
Here is BP's description of how their nickel plating is done.

Design: A hardened lead/antimony alloy core is first copper coated before heavy nickel plating is applied. This thick exterior layer serves as the hardening catalyst for the entire pellet. It provides the essential hardness and reduced friction for maximum penetration capability. The first thing you'll notice about birds hit with nickel-plated lead is the reduction or elimination of feathers in the wound channel. The surface coating of nickel allows these pellets to penetrate straight through tough feathers and deliver lethal energy where it counts most.

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Turkinator
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by Turkinator » January 5th, 2018, 10:42 am

Most of the live pigeon shooters who shoot for big money shoot it. If I shot lead I probably would also.

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Spuriosity
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by Spuriosity » January 6th, 2018, 11:19 am

turkeyinstrut wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:59 am
Spuriosity wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:42 am
Definite maybe. Depends on the underlying shot. I would much prefer unplated magnum grade (ie high antimony) to Ni plated chilled (ie low antimony) shot. As long as the underlying pellet is very round and hardened with sufficient antimony, then adding Ni or Cu plating will improve patterns. But some mfgs start with inferior chilled shot, add Ni plating, and charge a huge premium.
Here is BP's description of how their nickel plating is done.

Design: A hardened lead/antimony alloy core is first copper coated before heavy nickel plating is applied. This thick exterior layer serves as the hardening catalyst for the entire pellet. It provides the essential hardness and reduced friction for maximum penetration capability. The first thing you'll notice about birds hit with nickel-plated lead is the reduction or elimination of feathers in the wound channel. The surface coating of nickel allows these pellets to penetrate straight through tough feathers and deliver lethal energy where it counts most.
Good info. Was not insinuating at all that BPI's supplier is one of those selling inferior Ni-plated chilled shot. In fact, I currently load BPI Ni-plated 7s for ruffed grouse. My only point is that Ni plating is not a magic bullet. As long as the underlying pellet is hard and round, I am convinced it helps.

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Spuriosity
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by Spuriosity » January 6th, 2018, 11:26 am

With regard to Activ shells, I guess it is a moot point since they are long defunct, but I found them to not pattern very well. I know they have a cult like following, and they certainly killed piles of gobblers, but IME they did not pattern as well as Cu-plated and buffered loads with smaller payloads from Fed or Winch. The Activs were not buffered and tried to stuff a lot of shot (2.25 oz) into a 3" hull, causing velocity to suffer. Buffer makes a huge difference with heavy lead payloads, Ni-plated or not.

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Shooter
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by Shooter » January 6th, 2018, 3:09 pm

I did quite a bit of testing with a huge batch from BP when they put it on sale many years ago. I must have gotten some of the hard stuff.
It shot considerably tighter and more uniform than any of the lead, and CP lead that I had.

firedup
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by firedup » January 6th, 2018, 7:02 pm

I can't add much to this discussion except to say that in my continuing search for a solid blackpowder load (shooting a front stuffer at lower velocity and pressure of course), I talked to several old timers who have shot more experimenting for pattern and effectiveness than I ever will. Ducks and upland birds were their primary target but a turkey or 2 definetly felt their touch a couple of times. They pretty much all had concluded that nickel plated shot produced a better pattern with fewer "flyers" than either lead or copper plated shot. I don't know if they did or did not experiment with a lot of the newer, harder shot but their vote sold me on nickel plated. Just another $.02.

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turkeyinstrut
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by turkeyinstrut » January 7th, 2018, 9:15 am

Spuriosity wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:19 am
turkeyinstrut wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:59 am
Spuriosity wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:42 am
Definite maybe. Depends on the underlying shot. I would much prefer unplated magnum grade (ie high antimony) to Ni plated chilled (ie low antimony) shot. As long as the underlying pellet is very round and hardened with sufficient antimony, then adding Ni or Cu plating will improve patterns. But some mfgs start with inferior chilled shot, add Ni plating, and charge a huge premium.
Here is BP's description of how their nickel plating is done.

Design: A hardened lead/antimony alloy core is first copper coated before heavy nickel plating is applied. This thick exterior layer serves as the hardening catalyst for the entire pellet. It provides the essential hardness and reduced friction for maximum penetration capability. The first thing you'll notice about birds hit with nickel-plated lead is the reduction or elimination of feathers in the wound channel. The surface coating of nickel allows these pellets to penetrate straight through tough feathers and deliver lethal energy where it counts most.
Good info. Was not insinuating at all that BPI's supplier is one of those selling inferior Ni-plated chilled shot. In fact, I currently load BPI Ni-plated 7s for ruffed grouse. My only point is that Ni plating is not a magic bullet. As long as the underlying pellet is hard and round, I am convinced it helps.
No, no Spuriosity I wasn't implying that at all, I just happen to run across the manufacturing process and wanted to share it. Actually I didn't realize that they copper coated it before they nickel plated it.

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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by Reloader » January 10th, 2018, 12:13 pm

Spuriosity wrote:
January 5th, 2018, 9:42 am
Definite maybe. Depends on the underlying shot. I would much prefer unplated magnum grade (ie high antimony) to Ni plated chilled (ie low antimony) shot. As long as the underlying pellet is very round and hardened with sufficient antimony, then adding Ni or Cu plating will improve patterns. But some mfgs start with inferior chilled shot, add Ni plating, and charge a huge premium.
+1

I've tested it quite a bit and found it to pattern no better than really hard mag grade lead batches, but it does out pattern softer lead alloy. Not all NP is equal either as some sources use less antimony in the core. Many years ago it was commonly said that PR sold the hardest NP lead, but I'm not sure if that's currently true.

NP lead is all a fella really needs if he wants to stay within 50yds in a 3.5" 12ga, BUT you'll not even come reasonably close to the results of Winchester's LB loads and your cost will be about the same if not more. I was able to beat pre-LB loads available by handloading buffered NP turkey loads, but after LBs hit the market it was pretty much a useless endeavor with the exception being the joy of taking game with one's own loads. I also see no point when one can carry a light weight sub gauge with today's tungsten alloy shot and kill effectively to insane ranges w/o the punishment of heavy lead payloads.

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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by decoykrvr » January 10th, 2018, 2:12 pm

Prior to the mandated use of steel shot which was 1983, in some of the states I hunted, I reloaded and evaluated a lot of components for waterfowl loads. Most of the copper plated shot was high antimony and the Italian made nickel plated shot which I evaluated and loaded had an even higher antimony content. We typically evaluated penetration utilizing 1/4" marine grade plywood at various distances and the pricey nickel plated lead available at that time out performed everything in penetration and patterns. I loaded a 12 gauge, 3", 15/8 ounce, buffered load at 1300 fps in both nickel plated 5's and 2's which out performed every available factory load on ducks and geese, especially at ranges in excess of 45 yards. After a spirited discussion at a local turkey banquet back in the early 80's w/ Ben Rogers Lee, I loaded him some of my waterfowl loads in 2's, 4's and 5's for turkey hunting and he commented that he had never seen anything penetrate like the nickel plated shot. I think that Ben was still body shooting most of his birds at that time, and he told me that, "Those shell will shoot completely through a gobbler!" I don't have a clue about the current nickel or copper plated shot now on the market, but will make someone a deal on the "old" shot which I still have. If interested drop me a PM and I'll check and see what I have.

coconut
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Re: Nickel plated lead

Post by coconut » January 10th, 2018, 4:32 pm

I had a box call that was made by Ben years ago. I didn’t know it at the time when I bought it that the paddle screw had been stripped out. Had turkey in front of me gobbling good and I cut on the box. Screw and spring shot out into the leaves. Left me holding lid and box and it was the only call I had with me. I looked for that spring for an hour and never found it. Turkey got away. Still mad about that.

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