TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

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edengreylag
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TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by edengreylag » September 4th, 2019, 10:44 am

Just bought a pedersoli s/s 12 guage.Now it kills geese (had it out a few days back on opening day taking out local resident Canadas that we have here are here in the UK these days)But its cylinder and with Bismuth that mean 25 yards or maybe 30 ,But TSS is a new ball game and should be viable up to my usual 40-45 yards i shoot here inland with lead or on the shore with steel .Im advised ill probably get good 60 yard patterns but that's more than i need in a muzzle loader.Question is---- im advised that the pressures may shoot up as its TSS im loading not bismuth or even steel. and since no-one knows how many grains to use im in uncharted territories here.If i load 28g(an ounce) i could use the usual 80 grains of powder but who knows???.Taking delivery of some TSS and bio wads soon so im hoping someone has data somewhere???? Now it dun matter if its a tss black powder load to shoot geese,duck,turkeys or anything else for that matter but data on TSS is sure thin on the ground and non existant for percussion shotguns.Pity as this will push the range of this npedersoli out to 50 yards -perfect for geese(or turkeys)--if we had turkeys wild here in scotland
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Southern Sportsman
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by Southern Sportsman » September 4th, 2019, 11:05 am

I’m certainly no expert, but it is my understanding that TSS is more forgiving in terms of pressure than steel and other hard but less dense materials. There are a few here who have posted turkey load results with traditional front loaders. I’m sure someone can help you out.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

crow
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by crow » September 4th, 2019, 12:37 pm

I have 2 buddy's shooting TSS in cyl. bore 20 gauge smoothbores, both shoot the same powder charge with tss that they shoot with lead.
this is with traditional fiber felt and card wads ( not sure if this is your bio wads)

I got tighter center core patterns with a cyl. bore 20ga. smoothbore with lead shot by dropping the powder charge down 5 grains (by volume) and increasing shot charge 1/4 ounce, this was with traditional wads.
I would try this with TSS and maybe add a wool felt wad under the shot to reduce pressure.

Goggle, muzzle loader "skychief" load. This is a reverse wad sequence load to tighten up cyl bore muzzleloader patterns with traditional wads.
it doesn't help much in a choked barrel. I tried this in an old SXS shotshell double with good results in the cyl bore right barrel. Had negative results in left barrel with light modified choke.

edengreylag
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by edengreylag » September 4th, 2019, 1:14 pm

TSS is waaay to hard a material to use without proper protective wadding.id never use it without a steel TPS typed plastic or bio wad . Im understanding that a felt wad placed over the cardboard powder wad stops plastic wads from melting ,leaving dangerous plastic residue in the barrels. thanks for the info on this sky chief method Crow,If it gives me 40 yards for geese it will be a winner.30 yards is hard to work with out on the shoreline

edengreylag
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by edengreylag » September 10th, 2019, 11:03 am

crow wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 12:37 pm
I have 2 buddy's shooting TSS in cyl. bore 20 gauge smoothbores, both shoot the same powder charge with tss that they shoot with lead.
this is with traditional fiber felt and card wads ( not sure if this is your bio wads)

I got tighter center core patterns with a cyl. bore 20ga. smoothbore with lead shot by dropping the powder charge down 5 grains (by volume) and increasing shot charge 1/4 ounce, this was with traditional wads.
I would try this with TSS and maybe add a wool felt wad under the shot to reduce pressure.

Goggle, muzzle loader "skychief" load. This is a reverse wad sequence load to tighten up cyl bore muzzleloader patterns with traditional wads.
it doesn't help much in a choked barrel. I tried this in an old SXS shotshell double with good results in the cyl bore right barrel. Had negative results in left barrel with light modified choke.
But did they not protect their barrels??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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hoobilly
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by hoobilly » September 10th, 2019, 6:01 pm

edengreylag wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 11:03 am
crow wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 12:37 pm
I have 2 buddy's shooting TSS in cyl. bore 20 gauge smoothbores, both shoot the same powder charge with tss that they shoot with lead.
this is with traditional fiber felt and card wads ( not sure if this is your bio wads)

I got tighter center core patterns with a cyl. bore 20ga. smoothbore with lead shot by dropping the powder charge down 5 grains (by volume) and increasing shot charge 1/4 ounce, this was with traditional wads.
I would try this with TSS and maybe add a wool felt wad under the shot to reduce pressure.

Goggle, muzzle loader "skychief" load. This is a reverse wad sequence load to tighten up cyl bore muzzleloader patterns with traditional wads.
it doesn't help much in a choked barrel. I tried this in an old SXS shotshell double with good results in the cyl bore right barrel. Had negative results in left barrel with light modified choke.
But did they not protect their barrels??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Message me for a little info. But yes you want to protect the barrel

crow
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by crow » September 10th, 2019, 6:36 pm

edengreylag wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 11:03 am
crow wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 12:37 pm
I have 2 buddy's shooting TSS in cyl. bore 20 gauge smoothbores, both shoot the same powder charge with tss that they shoot with lead.
this is with traditional fiber felt and card wads ( not sure if this is your bio wads)

I got tighter center core patterns with a cyl. bore 20ga. smoothbore with lead shot by dropping the powder charge down 5 grains (by volume) and increasing shot charge 1/4 ounce, this was with traditional wads.
I would try this with TSS and maybe add a wool felt wad under the shot to reduce pressure.

Goggle, muzzle loader "skychief" load. This is a reverse wad sequence load to tighten up cyl bore muzzleloader patterns with traditional wads.
it doesn't help much in a choked barrel. I tried this in an old SXS shotshell double with good results in the cyl bore right barrel. Had negative results in left barrel with light modified choke.
But did they not protect their barrels??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



Both of them are shooting TSS 18g/cc #9 shot.

one is using a steel shot plastic wad, no mylar.
the other is using traditional "Circle fly" nitro cards and fiber wads, no paper shot cup or mylar

from what they are saying they both have examined their bores and are not seeing any type of marking or damage.
as far as I know neither are shooting TSS for waterfowl and are only shooting a limited amount of shots a year for turkeys.



There is a member on this forum "Matt / Pa" that is also using TSS in a flintlock with traditional wads and this is with a barrel with turkey choke built into it. His posts are worth reading.

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hoobilly
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by hoobilly » September 10th, 2019, 8:46 pm

crow wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 6:36 pm
edengreylag wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 11:03 am
crow wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 12:37 pm
There is a member on this forum "Matt / Pa" that is also using TSS in a flintlock with traditional wads and this is with a barrel with turkey choke built into it. His posts are worth reading.
and his smokaloader is beautiful

edengreylag
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by edengreylag » September 11th, 2019, 2:15 pm

Pattern testing today with a few different loads.I decided to use the entire bio wad rather than cutting it back with the TSS . So---70 grains NOT the usual 60 used this time .Thick Over powder wad put on top of charge .I then placed a 20 bore hard packing wad inside the cup once the wad was manipulated and squeezed into the bore.A nice bit of saliva helped it in .Gently pushed down a few inches then tss (one ounce only) placed in barrels with overshot light card wad on top.Pattern was fairly good at 50 yards the first barrel and well--the pic below says it all.Quite happy if i can replicate this more often than not.I have noticed this gun shoots LOW .It did so on 5 different pattern sheets.Incredibly lifelike goose shape is goose sized BTW 30" circle.23 hits to the bird and of course a few more to wings bome/meat if i had drawn them on .Wads were blown god knows where -i found only 3 . i recon they flew sideways into the tide.Very chewed up wads opened right out like a pitbull got hold of them--but bore of gun is fine .I think the 70 grains is helping 10 grains more this time plus entire wad used not a cut down job.The gun shoots low--i know this now.on every pattern the base is heaviest in strikes due to the guns aim point being lower than would have imagined.I aimed(wind pushing me all over the place) at the base of the neck but at 50 yards in a strong wind i struggled to hold the gun true.





Now this load IF i can do it as a constant will suffice.Its fiddly getting these fibre cups to fit the 13 bore barrels ,you have to bite em and squeeze em around very firmly but delicate like then rotate them into the muzzle.With no 20 bore hard wad inside the cup you would poke the bottom of the wad out if you tried to push it down.You need the hard wad in place ,then shove it down 6 inches or so then drop the shot,over powder card wad on top then ram it very firm but also quite gently watching out for the hydraulic pressure hiss when you are pushing it home.
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pattern1goose1.jpg

crow
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by crow » September 12th, 2019, 8:24 pm

Nice 50yd killing pattern and that would have broken some wing bones on a flying goose.

are you shooting 15 or 18g/cc #7 shot?

edengreylag
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Joined: September 4th, 2019, 10:38 am

Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by edengreylag » September 13th, 2019, 10:09 am

15g/cc one ounce.Tried the same load with 50 grains of 777,too low a powder charge.Seems TSS likes a bigger powder charge to shove it along.So the end game is this

70 grains of 777 powder

over powder card wad--the stiffer variety( you need it as the fibre cup wad is a folded design with a hole in its base.With no thick wad under it its too flimsy.)
fibre cup wad,4 petals cut right to base.these wads are thick and stiff.dont cut the petals to the base and the petals will not open evenly.

place a 20g single thick spacer in fibre cup wad after you have pushed the wad into the bore a ways (mines actually a pedersoli 13 guage so its a bitch).If you had a proper 12 guage you should do this easier than i can.Push the whole wad down say 4 inches so its truly in the bore.Dont shove it all down in case your ramrod pushes the bottom of the fibre wad out.
Add your 0ne ounce of TSS#7 15G/CC,
Overshot card wad and shove it all gently home.

You are now ready for a goose out to a comfortable 45-50 yards.Good enough.You shouldnt need be sky busting anyways and this load will beat the crud out of any steel or bismuth stuff you load up. And btw--as you all probably know--the penetration is awesome!!

firedup
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Re: TSS wt15 Black powder percussion load???

Post by firedup » September 14th, 2019, 9:36 am

Seems like you have something figured out. I did notice this comment on Ballistic Prod website regarding wads - black powder loading for a TK 2000. Cut and paste.

“Black Powder 12ga Turkey
“Several years ago I bought a Knight TK2000 12ga black powder shotgun with turkey hunting in mind. It comes with a handful of pink plastic shot cups that supposedly hold 2.5 oz of copper plat- ed shot. Knowing the shot cups provided wouldnt last long I re- searched possible replacements and decided to buy these 3227702s [12ga 3” TPS wads]. I also got a hold of some others listed for steel shot. These out performed those so well in my gun that I gave away the steel shot cups and have taken these afield every year since. Ive bagged a turkey every year with most being dead before they hit the ground. I have since noticed the Turkey Rangers but see no reason to even try them, the turkey wont be any deader than if I continue to use these. ...”

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