Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
I was looking at a couple barrel's on the SumToy Facebook page today. They were split at the choke tube thread area. They were saying that over choking on hard shot like steel and tungsten was the culprit.
I have shot a lot of HW shot over the last several years at ducks without any problem BUT I am typically shooting extended Mod or looser. My patterns always seem to deteriorate if tighter than Mod.
I do know a few people that shoot very tight chokes with steel shot that say "steel and tungsten safe" that shoot a couple flats a year during duck season, usually #1 or #2 and haven't had a problem YET.
So what is "too tight" and is it related to how much we shoot through too tight of a choke?
The only time it would affect me is during turkey hunting and a stellar year here in Alabama is five shots.
I shoot TSS #9 through a .024" constriction out of a .410 (.385") and HW15 #7 through a .080" constriction out of a 12 gauge (.660").
Should I be concerned?
I have shot a lot of HW shot over the last several years at ducks without any problem BUT I am typically shooting extended Mod or looser. My patterns always seem to deteriorate if tighter than Mod.
I do know a few people that shoot very tight chokes with steel shot that say "steel and tungsten safe" that shoot a couple flats a year during duck season, usually #1 or #2 and haven't had a problem YET.
So what is "too tight" and is it related to how much we shoot through too tight of a choke?
The only time it would affect me is during turkey hunting and a stellar year here in Alabama is five shots.
I shoot TSS #9 through a .024" constriction out of a .410 (.385") and HW15 #7 through a .080" constriction out of a 12 gauge (.660").
Should I be concerned?
- Spuriosity
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Never seen or even heard of TSS 8s or 9s harming a barrel or choke tube. But I can see how steel BBs, BBBs, and Ts could.
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Big thing is what gun also. 410 is thicker 20ga is thicker. The new 12ga stuff the try to shave weight on and some guns have Mickey Mouse choke systems. Now for the TSS will hurt a gun yes now that is if you over choke or you load wrong or just one them hay hold my beer watch this guys. Tss I think is going to take a big beat down this year because of commercial loaded shells. In past you had you guys that hand loaded that was a elite group. Now you got every body buying it and punching paper. That is why folks in past was thinking i not like tss. It not i did not limed tss i did not like the guy that was changing up loads. I hope all yall along with the choke companies can lead folks the correct way and keep bad things from happening.
Now for blown up barrels i have seen more the past 2 years then the past 10. One month i had 10000 worth of guns with blown up barrel or swole barrels. Alot of it is i need more shell and smaller choke. Then few guns have thin chokes now. Alot of young shooters. We as a group need to work together and try to mentor the new guys.
Now for blown up barrels i have seen more the past 2 years then the past 10. One month i had 10000 worth of guns with blown up barrel or swole barrels. Alot of it is i need more shell and smaller choke. Then few guns have thin chokes now. Alot of young shooters. We as a group need to work together and try to mentor the new guys.
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
very well said.. I know that some want the big name with the most numbers they can get in the 10" circle. With TSS 7's or 8's, if I have 200-250 within my patterns, that is good enough for me.SumToy wrote: ↑February 14th, 2018, 10:14 pm Big thing is what gun also. 410 is thicker 20ga is thicker. The new 12ga stuff the try to shave weight on and some guns have Mickey Mouse choke systems. Now for the TSS will hurt a gun yes now that is if you over choke or you load wrong or just one them hay hold my beer watch this guys. Tss I think is going to take a big beat down this year because of commercial loaded shells. In past you had you guys that hand loaded that was a elite group. Now you got every body buying it and punching paper. That is why folks in past was thinking i not like tss. It not i did not limed tss i did not like the guy that was changing up loads. I hope all yall along with the choke companies can lead folks the correct way and keep bad things from happening.
Now for blown up barrels i have seen more the past 2 years then the past 10. One month i had 10000 worth of guns with blown up barrel or swole barrels. Alot of it is i need more shell and smaller choke. Then few guns have thin chokes now. Alot of young shooters. We as a group need to work together and try to mentor the new guys.
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
You have me thinking now! I have an 11-87 with a Mark Banser sleeved choke in it. (.650 ) It shoots awesome with Win. LB 1-7/8 oz #6
I shoot TSS in some other guns and was thinking of running some through it to see what it does. Should I just stick with the Long beards?
I shoot TSS in some other guns and was thinking of running some through it to see what it does. Should I just stick with the Long beards?
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
.
"You've gotta be original, because if you're like someone else, what do they need you for?"- Bernadette Peters
"You've gotta be original, because if you're like someone else, what do they need you for?"- Bernadette Peters
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
I believe it. When people are pushing 2.5 oz loads and .650 chokes then bad things will eventually happen. Never understood anything over a 2.25 oz load and even that can be a bit much. If I did not already have everything for the 1 5/8 oz 20 ga load I shoot I would drop to the 1 7/16 oz.
- Southern Sportsman
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Do tell? Pour a little melted hard candy into the shot column? Peanut brittle?Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 1:04 pm Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Yeah I tried thatSouthern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 4:59 pmDo tell? Pour a little melted hard candy into the shot column? Peanut brittle?Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 1:04 pm Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Yeah I tried tha tSouthern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 4:59 pmDo tell? Pour a little melted hard candy into the shot column? Peanut brittle?Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 1:04 pm Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
- ICDEDTURKES
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Honestly been on the boards with Scott forever. I never doubt him when it pertains to guns. Dude is maybe the smartest person when it comes to guns on any board.Southern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 4:59 pmDo tell? Pour a little melted hard candy into the shot column? Peanut brittle?Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 1:04 pm Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
When I have a question, I call Scott and he most likely has an answer or at least a theory as to why.
He is like Sheldon on big bang theory
- Southern Sportsman
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Oh I have no doubt that sloppy knows how to do it. I was joking about the hard candy, but I would like to know how he does it.ICDEDTURKES wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 2:50 amHonestly been on the boards with Scott forever. I never doubt him when it pertains to guns. Dude is maybe the smartest person when it comes to guns on any board.Southern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 4:59 pmDo tell? Pour a little melted hard candy into the shot column? Peanut brittle?Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 1:04 pm Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
When I have a question, I call Scott and he most likely has an answer or at least a theory as to why.
He is like Sheldon on big bang theory
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
I am sorry but this is one avenue even the Slopster is going to avoid from posting publically (nor will I provide any information privately).Southern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 9:57 amOh I have no doubt that sloppy knows how to do it. I was joking about the hard candy, but I would like to know how he does it.
Here's why: the process is not so much complicated as it is time critical (in particular to the time it takes the ShotLok resin to cure to the appropriate hardness). The resin utilized is clearly stated within Winchester's patent application. That said, my chemist's brain will tell you this: mixing the resin correctly, in the correct proportions, in the correct temperature, in the correct environment is critical. This is not something your average reloader/hunter is going to do (I know MANY). This is why I will not post any reloading recipes utilizing resin that performs in the exact same manner as Winchester's ShotLok resin.
For those wanting to try resin with TSS (or even lead), I can tell you that it will not be worth your time or expense to try but do as you wish. Your mileage will vary.
"You'll shoot your eye out kid!" -A Christmas Story 1983
.
"You've gotta be original, because if you're like someone else, what do they need you for?"- Bernadette Peters
"You've gotta be original, because if you're like someone else, what do they need you for?"- Bernadette Peters
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 1:04 pm Make your own Longbeard shotshells... piece of cake.
Now that's some funny chit right there !Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 10:17 amI am sorry but this is one avenue even the Slopster is going to avoid from posting publically (nor will I provide any information privately).Southern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 9:57 amOh I have no doubt that sloppy knows how to do it. I was joking about the hard candy, but I would like to know how he does it.
Here's why: the process is not so much complicated as it is time critical (in particular to the time it takes the ShotLok resin to cure to the appropriate hardness). The resin utilized is clearly stated within Winchester's patent application. That said, my chemist's brain will tell you this: mixing the resin correctly, in the correct proportions, in the correct temperature, in the correct environment is critical. This is not something your average reloader/hunter is going to do (I know MANY). This is why I will not post any reloading recipes utilizing resin that performs in the exact same manner as Winchester's ShotLok resin.
For those wanting to try resin with TSS (or even lead), I can tell you that it will not be worth your time or expense to try but do as you wish. Your mileage will vary.
"You'll shoot your eye out kid!" -A Christmas Story 1983
- Southern Sportsman
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Sloppy,
Do you have a good explination as to why the resin works so well for Winchester? Does it keep the lead pellets from deforming? Or does it actually hold the shot column together long enough to make a difference? Seems like it would just shatter, turning into buffer, as soon as it passes through the choke.
Do you have a good explination as to why the resin works so well for Winchester? Does it keep the lead pellets from deforming? Or does it actually hold the shot column together long enough to make a difference? Seems like it would just shatter, turning into buffer, as soon as it passes through the choke.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Wouldn't the mass of the shot column, and the fluidity of the small shot, mean more than actual weight? I was trying to work up some 410 lead loads for squirrel hunting behind the curs. I found that the tps410 wad that we load 13/16 oz of tss wouldn't work with more than 1/2oz lead 7.5s. I'm not home to try it, but if we assembled a 92 wad with cork ,felts, Mylar, our typical 1.625 tss load, how much lead would fit in the same volume? With a 1.625 tss load we may only be shooting a smaller shot column than a much less lead load. Also the fluidity of small shot and its lack of a bridging effect would need to be considered. I've seen no damage in either of my 20ga guns. Both have Indian creek .555chokes. Someone who loads a lot of the larger heavi shot might have different results.
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Back to the topic of over choking...I noticed that Turlock has some new tss chokes. The constriction I saw was a .640. I've never seen any shoot tss that tight
- Hoobilly
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
that must be for the Federal TSS flitecontrol wad
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Where did you see that? All I find on their website is the standard #7 Fed Heavyweight choke tube.
Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
I saw them in nashville
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Yes. The ShotLok resin keeps the lead pellets from deforming AND it maintains spatial separation of the pellets while in the wad. At detonation while inside the wad inside the hull while inside the chamber, the resin cracks into a powder (mostly). Predominantly just buffer down the barrel and out the choke. Think of the shattering of tempered glass; same principle and effect.Southern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 2:54 pm Sloppy,
Do you have a good explination as to why the resin works so well for Winchester? Does it keep the lead pellets from deforming? Or does it actually hold the shot column together long enough to make a difference? Seems like it would just shatter, turning into buffer, as soon as it passes through the choke.
.
"You've gotta be original, because if you're like someone else, what do they need you for?"- Bernadette Peters
"You've gotta be original, because if you're like someone else, what do they need you for?"- Bernadette Peters
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Re: Over Choking Tungsten Causing Barrel Damage?
Interesting bit of information. The real question in a hypothetical situation is how much of a mess would I make with the resin. Being all items on bench now mysteriously move because of the psb. So I can only fathom how bad it would be if resin was involved.Sloppy_Snood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2018, 1:57 pmYes. The ShotLok resin keeps the lead pellets from deforming AND it maintains spatial separation of the pellets while in the wad. At detonation while inside the wad inside the hull while inside the chamber, the resin cracks into a powder (mostly). Predominantly just buffer down the barrel and out the choke. Think of the shattering of tempered glass; same principle and effect.Southern Sportsman wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 2:54 pm Sloppy,
Do you have a good explination as to why the resin works so well for Winchester? Does it keep the lead pellets from deforming? Or does it actually hold the shot column together long enough to make a difference? Seems like it would just shatter, turning into buffer, as soon as it passes through the choke.