Federal muzzleloader bullets

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Spuriosity
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Spuriosity » October 7th, 2017, 4:52 am

Two Knights and a Rem 700 ML would not group Barnes 250 gr Expanders (5-6" groups). Switched to the 300s and groups tightened up to 1-1.5", I use 105 gr equivalent BH 209 for powder. The fellas shooting Knights use 110. Always exit with golfball sized exit holes.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Sloppy_Snood » October 7th, 2017, 10:27 am

Tom,

Quit dikking around a buy a White ML and be done with it.

You don't even need all the saboted junk; heavy lead conicals FTW!

White Rifles Bison .504"

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620-grain Pure Lead Flyin' Tootsie Roll (copper gas checked)

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 8th, 2017, 8:36 am

Sloppy_Snood wrote:
October 7th, 2017, 10:27 am
Tom,

Quit dikking around a buy a White ML and be done with it.

You don't even need all the saboted junk; heavy lead conicals FTW!

White Rifles Bison .504"

Image

620-grain Pure Lead Flyin' Tootsie Roll (copper gas checked)

Image
Big heavy conicals shoot good through everything I imagine. I personally don’t shoot muzzloaders enough to justify casting my own bullets. But them things have to hit a deer like a Peterbilt

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Sloppy_Snood » October 8th, 2017, 5:37 pm

hoobilly wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 8:36 am
Big heavy conicals shoot good through everything I imagine. I personally don’t shoot muzzloaders enough to justify casting my own bullets. But them things have to hit a deer like a Peterbilt
Yes. No need for "magnum" loads, 150-grain/3-pellet garbage, 3,000+ FPS smokeless muzzleloaders, on and on...

As Doc White has preached for years, pure lead heavy conicals traveling at modest velocities drops everything in North America with little effort.

It might surprise you that my load with a 498-grain conical called the "Trashcan" and a mere 72 grains of loose Swiss ffg real black powder at approximately 1,320 FPS. Dead Right There every time. :king:
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 8th, 2017, 8:21 pm

Sloppy_Snood wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 5:37 pm
hoobilly wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 8:36 am
Big heavy conicals shoot good through everything I imagine. I personally don’t shoot muzzloaders enough to justify casting my own bullets. But them things have to hit a deer like a Peterbilt
Yes. No need for "magnum" loads, 150-grain/3-pellet garbage, 3,000+ FPS smokeless muzzleloaders, on and on...

As Doc White has preached for years, pure lead heavy conicals traveling at modest velocities drops everything in North America with little effort.

It might surprise you that my load with a 498-grain conical called the "Trashcan" and a mere 72 grains of loose Swiss ffg real black powder at approximately 1,320 FPS. Dead Right There every time. :king:
I typically shoot between 90-120 grains of 777 powder
just read about knurling your bullets to make them a tad bigger to make them fit a barrel on sabot less muzzleloaders. I wonder if knurling will work when still using sabots. I bet they would help grab and make the bullet spin easier for more accuracy.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 9th, 2017, 8:05 am

I would never doubt the knockdown power of a heavy conical just not sure about 200 - 300 yard performance and they kick like a mule! As for magnum (150 gr) charges I don't think you gain much except many times overheating the sabot and having erratic results. There is only so much powder that can be burned in a tube and I think that surpasses it. A couple claim 200 gr or 4 pellet capability. Ok. I much prefer loose powder. I find with 777 fff and Buckhorn 209 I get better consistency weighing the charges vs volume measurements. Like these other guys I start at 100 gr volume. Weigh it. Weigh out 3 of that weight. Try it with my 1st bullet choice. If not acceptable, I will drop the weight a couple grains or raise it a couple grains. It usually doesn't take long to get a charge that matches gun and bullet with acceptable accuracy which for me is 1.5" or less at 100 yards with a ML. Most of mine do better. Like others if the 250 gr bullets don't seem to work, switching to the 290 or 300 usually does the trick. Also agree the heavy MZ is just stinking brutal but second the opinion these do not group as well at distances past 150 yards. Keep in mind if you start pushing the magnum charges the sabot integrity may be the limiting factor. I have seen combinations that perform very well when temps are below 50 but let the temp be up around 70 and the sabot failed and it did some really weird things. These ML powders in general are not very temp stable. Something to keep in mind as many times ML season can come when temps are still pretty warm.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 9th, 2017, 10:17 am

drenalinld wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 8:05 am
These ML powders in general are not very temp stable. Something to keep in mind as many times ML season can come when temps are still pretty warm.
many years ago I shot pellets and hunted in Ky. It went from nice and chilly to a wet and humid in a day. After 2 days I thought I best shoot it and clean it. popped like a dud firecracker.

I hate hunting when its warm and muggy

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Swampchickin234 » October 9th, 2017, 11:32 am

Interesting read I have enjoyed here. I personally shoot hornady xtp 240 gr jacketed hollow points in a sabot over 80 grains of triple 7 loose. My whole bunch shoots it and it is devastating. We don't shoot 250 yards, but personal experience leaves me comfortable to 125 yards easy. Soft recoil, great accuracy, and jack hammer effective deer.


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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES » October 9th, 2017, 1:32 pm

Swampchickin234 wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 11:32 am
Interesting read I have enjoyed here. I personally shoot hornady xtp 240 gr jacketed hollow points in a sabot over 80 grains of triple 7 loose. My whole bunch shoots it and it is devastating. We don't shoot 250 yards, but personal experience leaves me comfortable to 125 yards easy. Soft recoil, great accuracy, and jack hammer effective deer.


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Xtp is a great bullet, tends to open up groups 150 but performs well on game
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by VALongbeard » October 9th, 2017, 1:54 pm

Swampchickin234 wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 11:32 am
Interesting read I have enjoyed here. I personally shoot hornady xtp 240 gr jacketed hollow points in a sabot over 80 grains of triple 7 loose. My whole bunch shoots it and it is devastating. We don't shoot 250 yards, but personal experience leaves me comfortable to 125 yards easy. Soft recoil, great accuracy, and jack hammer effective deer.


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If I wasn't going to shoot a Barnes bullet, the XTPs would be next in line for me.....they are a great bullet for the price.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 9th, 2017, 2:48 pm

I still have some of the 185 grain xtp’s rolling around at my shop.

I killed a “doe” turned out to be a small buck, at 175 yards with xtp’s

Aimed a fuz over its back and blew the spine out. Cousin bet me I couldn’t kill it. It didn’t drop very much

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by VALongbeard » October 9th, 2017, 4:17 pm

The XTPs are a very solid performer, especially for the money. I wouldn't think twice about shooting them. They perform very well. Close runner up to Barnes IMO.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by CamoMan4025 » October 9th, 2017, 6:25 pm

hoobilly wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 10:17 am
drenalinld wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 8:05 am
These ML powders in general are not very temp stable. Something to keep in mind as many times ML season can come when temps are still pretty warm.
many years ago I shot pellets and hunted in Ky. It went from nice and chilly to a wet and humid in a day. After 2 days I thought I best shoot it and clean it. popped like a dud firecracker.

I hate hunting when its warm and muggy
This is why your wife invites me over when you're out of town. She said he is nice and all, but he POPS LIKE A DUD FIRECRACKER! You on the other hand CamoMan are a BOMB :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :naka: :naka: :naka:
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Sloppy_Snood » October 9th, 2017, 6:47 pm

drenalinld wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 8:05 am
I would never doubt the knockdown power of a heavy conical just not sure about 200 - 300 yard performance and they kick like a mule!
They don't kick like a mule at all! When they do, you loaded it too fast. When the bullet is 500+ grains, speed is not necessary. You DO have to know you trajectory at range in order to get your holdover point correct; this is a rainbow trajectory mind you.

My White .504"... 3 consecutive shots in the same ragged hole at 100 yards all day, every day.

200 yards? ... 1 1/4 inches 3-shot consecutive with no barrel cooling.

300 yards?... Under 3" but I honestly don't ever shoot over 225 yards where I live (not to mention I have over 5 feet of bullet drop at that distance! :o )

Here are the 600-grain White PowerPunch bullet ballistics (White Rifles Best Loads (Click Here):

Image
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by OLE RASPY » October 9th, 2017, 7:19 pm

Swampchickin234 wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 11:32 am
Interesting read I have enjoyed here. I personally shoot hornady xtp 240 gr jacketed hollow points in a sabot over 80 grains of triple 7 loose. My whole bunch shoots it and it is devastating. We don't shoot 250 yards, but personal experience leaves me comfortable to 125 yards easy. Soft recoil, great accuracy, and jack hammer effective deer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
thats why I like muzzle loading season. Can shoot farther than a bow but not like a rifle. I keep it to 100 yards or so and never had a problem. Not made to shoot long distances but some of them are capable (mine is capable but I don’t )👍🏻
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by OLE RASPY » October 9th, 2017, 7:27 pm

What’s the purpose of a muzzleloader season. Come on guys. Heck with technology. That just ruins it. I know with today’s technology but I still stick with the yardage. Any bullet designed for a muzzleloader will kill a deer if you stick with what it will do. Kill zone on a deer is pretty big. It’s bullet placement and knowing what your equipment will do just like anythang else. Good info in this thread not saying that but it’s getting blowed out of proportion cause after all it is a muzzle loader. Just saying. Ok. Rant over , carry on. Lol.
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 9th, 2017, 9:12 pm

OLE RASPY wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 7:27 pm
What’s the purpose of a muzzleloader season. Come on guys. Heck with technology. That just ruins it. I know with today’s technology but I still stick with the yardage. Any bullet designed for a muzzleloader will kill a deer if you stick with what it will do. Kill zone on a deer is pretty big. It’s bullet placement and knowing what your equipment will do just like anythang else. Good info in this thread not saying that but it’s getting blowed out of proportion cause after all it is a muzzle loader. Just saying. Ok. Rant over , carry on. Lol.
what would Daniel Boone want to use? a traditional or a Encore with Barnes ? :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 10th, 2017, 7:34 am

hoobilly wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 10:17 am
drenalinld wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 8:05 am
These ML powders in general are not very temp stable. Something to keep in mind as many times ML season can come when temps are still pretty warm.
many years ago I shot pellets and hunted in Ky. It went from nice and chilly to a wet and humid in a day. After 2 days I thought I best shoot it and clean it. popped like a dud firecracker.

I hate hunting when its warm and muggy
I don't enjoy hunting warm temps either. You brought up a great point. Black powder and their substitutes draw moisture but the pellets seem even more sensitive to it.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 10th, 2017, 7:40 am

Sloppy_Snood wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 6:47 pm
drenalinld wrote:
October 9th, 2017, 8:05 am
I would never doubt the knockdown power of a heavy conical just not sure about 200 - 300 yard performance and they kick like a mule!
They don't kick like a mule at all! When they do, you loaded it too fast. When the bullet is 500+ grains, speed is not necessary. You DO have to know you trajectory at range in order to get your holdover point correct; this is a rainbow trajectory mind you.

My White .504"... 3 consecutive shots in the same ragged hole at 100 yards all day, every day.

200 yards? ... 1 1/4 inches 3-shot consecutive with no barrel cooling.

300 yards?... Under 3" but I honestly don't ever shoot over 225 yards where I live (not to mention I have over 5 feet of bullet drop at that distance! :o )

Here are the 600-grain White PowerPunch bullet ballistics (White Rifles Best Loads (Click Here):

Image
That's awesome! I always looked longingly at White ML's when Raglin used to pile em up with one on his videos. Impressive accuracy with the conicals. I love to see guys that care enough to know exactly what their setup will do at all distances they will consider shooting an animal. Even modern rifles require you to know trajectory at distance.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 10th, 2017, 7:46 am

Agree the XTP's are good. Have 400 or more bought up. Some are the red tipped 250 gr and some are the hollow 240 gr. Put deer down but rarely a blood trail is the only negative for me. I totally understand the primitive weapons sentiment. I occasionally carry my TC side capper mountain rifle with open sights. 75 yards or less it is deadly. Great topic and conversation.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES » October 10th, 2017, 8:34 am

As for blackhorn I have mixed review. I shoot an older optima Elite,, sal an optima. My elite is the best shooting muzzy I have ever shot. Sal's optima shot decent.

We decided to switch to bh and got a scale. Ordered sal the breech for bh and I had to send my plug out to be opened up. Got her plug, I set down 70 grains by weight, mag primer. Poof, literally, poof, bullet bounced off target. Wtf, load again.same.. Finally ended up having to buy baby orings to put in primer pocket, it's a pain in the butt when it's cold out. But her gun now shoots an inch at 100.

My gun which shoots, got plug back, my gun shot like crap, regardless of bullet. Bought another plug went back to pellets.

My buddies gun, I normally get talked into shooting there's. Buys optima, plug, sure as heck with blackhorn perfect.

I really should try mine with someone else drilling flashhole. The hydrscopic properties of bh is so good.
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES » October 10th, 2017, 8:44 am

Coolest muzzy I ever shot was a ultimate, the actual from Michigan, not the Remington.

Buddy wanted me to shoot it. I was like uh 4 pellets :shock: . But the gun weighs a ton and recoil was not bad. Thing is a tackle driver and better be for price
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Yule » October 10th, 2017, 8:26 pm

So if you are a TSS nut, you might as well get into smokeless muzzle loaders. Spend a little time on Doug's Message Board and you will have a new place to spend your money. I shoot 300 and 327 custom bullets from Bob Parker. They shoot far.... more than 40 yards.

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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Sloppy_Snood » October 10th, 2017, 8:51 pm

If you want a smokeless muzzleloader, only 3 are worth jack sheet (and jack left already).

Here is the real deal for that silly endeavor: Hankins Smokeless Muzzleloader (Click Here)

Remember BMW (Bring More Wallet). :lol:
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Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 11th, 2017, 8:31 pm

Sloppy_Snood wrote:
October 10th, 2017, 8:51 pm
If you want a smokeless muzzleloader, only 3 are worth jack sheet (and jack left already).

Here is the real deal for that silly endeavor: Hankins Smokeless Muzzleloader (Click Here)

Remember BMW (Bring More Wallet). :lol:
IOM (its only money) but at a starting price of $2,850 I will pass :LMAO:

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