Federal muzzleloader bullets

A discussion about Turkey guns, rifles, black powder, handguns, chokes, cleaning, and accessories.
drenalinld
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1345
Joined: December 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 4th, 2017, 7:29 am

I have a BUNCH of the PR bullets. I have yet to figure out a successful combo to get consistent groups with them. I love the idea of higher BC's because of 0.40 cal bullets in 0,50 cal sabots and 0.357 bullets in 0.45 cal sabots but just have not been able to get the thicker sabots to group well. I have also tried the double sabot setup that allows shooting the 0.357 bullet in a 0.50 cal gun. It was awful for me. I did get 2 MOA accuracy with them in a 0.45 cal years ago and shot a couple deer. As with all the ML bullets I have tried there was no blood trail.

User avatar
turkeyinstrut
Posts: 357
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 11:32 am

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by turkeyinstrut » October 4th, 2017, 9:18 am

drenalinld wrote:
October 4th, 2017, 7:29 am
I have a BUNCH of the PR bullets. I have yet to figure out a successful combo to get consistent groups with them. I love the idea of higher BC's because of 0.40 cal bullets in 0,50 cal sabots and 0.357 bullets in 0.45 cal sabots but just have not been able to get the thicker sabots to group well. I have also tried the double sabot setup that allows shooting the 0.357 bullet in a 0.50 cal gun. It was awful for me. I did get 2 MOA accuracy with them in a 0.45 cal years ago and shot a couple deer. As with all the ML bullets I have tried there was no blood trail.
If you had any of these for a 50 cal. with the 200 gr. 40 cal. bullet I would be interested in them, like I was saying they will literally shoot through the same hole at 50 yds in my rifle and at 100 my groups are right at 3/4" and just under 2" at 200. Every gun is different and I tried a LOT of different bullets until I found these but about the best I was getting at 100 before these was about 2.5" at 100 yds. A few years ago I took a nice 10 pt. at about 260 yds. with them and the deer never took a step, here is a picture of one I recovered from the opposite side of a medium size doe I killed last fall. It was just under the hide and measures .835 and weighs 172 gr.

http://img.image-storage.com/647658170/ ... 0aa9b4.jpg

http://img.image-storage.com/647658170/ ... 953244.jpg

At .835 dia. and 172 gr. it more than doubled it's original diameter and had about 85% weight retention.

User avatar
DBLGBL
Posts: 24
Joined: May 27th, 2017, 8:31 am
Location: Blacksburg VA

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by DBLGBL » October 4th, 2017, 9:41 am

I also never got the grouping that Cecil Epp (PRBullet) gets out of his guns with their bullets. I'm sure it's possible if that's all I had to do. I do believe his thinking has advanced the industry as a whole. I use his breech plug and locker pin in my encore. I also shot a couple deer with the lighter shock waves and did not like the results as the bullets did not hold together. I'm revising my original statement. The Hornady SST's shoot and perform well for me your mileage may vary.

2Gbl

drenalinld
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1345
Joined: December 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 4th, 2017, 10:37 am

Didn't mean my statements as argumentative. Hope that's not how it sounded. Bullet performance with regard to quick kills and weight retention is different consideration for me than blood trails. That has been a long frustration of mine with ML's in general before I switched to the Barnes bullets. Now blood trails are great. I will take a 150 yard good blood trail over a 75 yard trail with two blood drops any day.

User avatar
turkeyinstrut
Posts: 357
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 11:32 am

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by turkeyinstrut » October 4th, 2017, 10:56 am

drenalinld wrote:
October 4th, 2017, 10:37 am
Didn't mean my statements as argumentative. Hope that's not how it sounded. Bullet performance with regard to quick kills and weight retention is different consideration for me than blood trails. That has been a long frustration of mine with ML's in general before I switched to the Barnes bullets. Now blood trails are great. I will take a 150 yard good blood trail over a 75 yard trail with two blood drops any day.
Didn't take it that way at all drenalinld and please forgive me if it sounded that way, I was just saying that they group very well in my particular rifle and I am pleased with the performance from them. We are good and you have a GREAT day. :cheers:

User avatar
ICDEDTURKES
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 6405
Joined: July 8th, 2011, 9:27 am

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES » October 4th, 2017, 11:30 am

drenalinld wrote:
October 4th, 2017, 10:37 am
Didn't mean my statements as argumentative. Hope that's not how it sounded. Bullet performance with regard to quick kills and weight retention is different consideration for me than blood trails. That has been a long frustration of mine with ML's in general before I switched to the Barnes bullets. Now blood trails are great. I will take a 150 yard good blood trail over a 75 yard trail with two blood drops any day.
I am not trying to be confrontational either. Just stating from experience.

Drenalin expressed my exact thoughts. Give me a bullet blowing through both sides and a blood trail, like he said I'd rather track 150 yards with good blood than killing the occasional deer with energy where it stood..

I even hate ballistic tip frangible bullets in a rifle. One of my best friends came to me when he bought his 300 wsm as to what bullet. I said "anything but nosler BT's or Winchester ballistic tip" sure as hell he came back with 3 boxes of federal nosler BT's. :violent1: He has shot multiple deer, not one blood trail, and that's with a 300 wsm all bullets have exploded. He is color blind and struggles to find his deer.

Finally he shelved them and went to Barnes Vortx.
Hooks Custom Calls Pro-Staff

VALongbeard
Posts: 144
Joined: April 22nd, 2012, 2:19 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by VALongbeard » October 4th, 2017, 7:14 pm

I am agreeing with Icededturkes and drenalinld once again.....the performance on game from Barnes bullets is too good for me to even think about going to something else. Even if I got something that shot a little better on paper, as long as I can get respectable groups from a Barnes expander, the rest are going in the spare bullet box......

Not trying to disagree with anyone either.....just stating my experience using all types of muzzleloader bullets.
I am going with the bullet that has produced consistent blood trails and terminal performance on game, and I am going to find a combo from my rifles that will shoot them. Kind of hard to think of trying to find a gun that will shoot a particular bullet, instead of finding a bullet that will shoot in the gun.

All of my Thompson's have done well with Barnes, just have had to change the sabot thickness and bullet weight around some.

User avatar
OLE RASPY
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1556
Joined: July 8th, 2011, 9:06 pm
Location: KENTUCKY

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by OLE RASPY » October 4th, 2017, 8:08 pm

It’s bullet placement. 😏
Can’t shoot him in the hoof and expect a blood trail :toothy7:
I shoot power belt in my optima.
TURKEYS
COYOTES
DEER
SQUIRRELS
(all in this order)

User avatar
CamoMan4025
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2768
Joined: August 31st, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by CamoMan4025 » October 5th, 2017, 7:18 am

Good conversation and good info here. That's what makes GN great. We are all adults and there is a wealth of knowledge on this site. I like my Shockwaves and they have performed great for me. Others like Barnes, etc., and if they work for you all then great. It's all about knowledge sharing and experience. Like stated before, all guns, smoke poles are different and what works for one doesn't work for the other.

Kevin
"God, Guts & High Explosives"

drenalinld
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1345
Joined: December 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 5th, 2017, 8:23 am

it's ok to be wrong.. a tumbling powerbelt packs a big punch if you are lucky enough to hit something....lol
They grouped well for me.

drenalinld
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1345
Joined: December 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 5th, 2017, 8:28 am

Nosler Ballistic Tips are stronger than they used to be especially the heavier for caliber weights and a few are designed to be effective on elk. The key is matching bullet construction with impact velocity. The ballistic tips are not likely to be a good choice for magnum rifles at close range.

VALongbeard
Posts: 144
Joined: April 22nd, 2012, 2:19 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by VALongbeard » October 5th, 2017, 9:10 am

I have had good results on whitetail from Nosler BTs in the past. However, as drenalinld stated, do not go light on bullet weight. I have shot them in a 25-06 and a 7mm-08, both model 700 rifles. They shot very well, and performance on game has been good. But I picked a heavy for caliber bullet weight to stop fragmentation. Lighter bullets tend to fragment and not penetrate deep enough with these types of bullets...... you want a higher sectional density with these bullets for sure.

I have seriously thought about changing to......you guessed it, Barnes for my centerfires as well. Penetration would not be an issue with these I am sure... especially after seeing what they have done in my smoke poles.

drenalinld
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1345
Joined: December 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 5th, 2017, 11:44 am

I have shot the barnes triple shock in a 300 Win Mag but I was shooting a 168 gr bullet over 3350. Not many bullets could hold up to that impact. I don't have the blood trail issue with modern rifles so I tend to bullets that are not as tough as the Barnes. However, totally depends on the expected impact velocity.

VALongbeard
Posts: 144
Joined: April 22nd, 2012, 2:19 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by VALongbeard » October 5th, 2017, 11:51 am

drenalinld wrote:
October 5th, 2017, 11:44 am
I have shot the barnes triple shock in a 300 Win Mag but I was shooting a 168 gr bullet over 3350. Not many bullets could hold up to that impact. I don't have the blood trail issue with modern rifles so I tend to bullets that are not as tough as the Barnes. However, totally depends on the expected impact velocity.
This is something alot of people often overlook.....great info

drenalinld
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1345
Joined: December 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by drenalinld » October 5th, 2017, 2:24 pm

More and more I am favoring the high shoulder shot that plants them on their hooves.

User avatar
Jbird22
Posts: 122
Joined: February 28th, 2012, 11:38 am
Location: South MS

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Jbird22 » October 5th, 2017, 3:10 pm

I've shot Win Ballistic Silvertips 150 gr in my BAR 30-06 for ~20 years now and have never had trouble with blood trails. I did always try my best to avoid direct shoulder hits though in order to get two holes. I can't say a negative thing about them but I used them as they were intended to be used IMO.

drenalinld, I shoot em mid shoulder with the same results. I like the wiggle room of aiming mid shoulder. Those all-copper bullets break em down like no other when impacting bone.

User avatar
CamoMan4025
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2768
Joined: August 31st, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by CamoMan4025 » October 5th, 2017, 5:06 pm

SHOOT EM' IN THE NECK! THEY NEVER MOVE!
"God, Guts & High Explosives"

User avatar
Sloppy_Snood
Posts: 441
Joined: September 26th, 2011, 7:52 pm
Location: Midwest
Contact:

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by Sloppy_Snood » October 5th, 2017, 7:51 pm

hoobilly wrote:
October 1st, 2017, 6:44 pm
Sloppy_Snood wrote:
October 1st, 2017, 6:20 pm
If anyone can botch a bullet or load, Federal can be counted on to lead the way.
so you think the Federal TSS load is going to be a hit or miss? :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:
Mark my dark, non-allaboutblowinghisownsillyhorn.kom non-prophetical words:

Federal TSS factory loads will barely approach 75-85% as good as solid handloader TSS recipes (Hal and bullethead's TSS loads come to mind 8-) ).

My best guess is the Federal TSS 8s load will perform on par with what any decent TSS loader on this site would call "okay" (before tweaking up to "heck ya!" levels).

BUT, in a valiant effort to save face, Federal will then claim the Flite Control wad performs best because the groups are "so tight!" :roll: (when we all pretty much know you could probably load TSS in a banana peel, shoot it, and it would still be tighter than lead).
.
"If you are going to achieve excellence in big things, you develop the habit in little matters. Excellence is not an exception, it is a prevailing attitude."- General Colin Powell, Ret.

User avatar
hoobilly
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 4045
Joined: August 15th, 2011, 9:15 pm
Location: Argos Indiana

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 6th, 2017, 7:38 am

Sloppy_Snood wrote:
October 5th, 2017, 7:51 pm
BUT, in a valiant effort to save face, Federal will then claim the Flite Control wad performs best because the groups are "so tight!" :roll: (when we all pretty much know you could probably load TSS in a banana peel, shoot it, and it would still be tighter than lead).
if still tighter than lead is what some are looking for, they will find it.

Lead longbeards is pretty tight

wonder how tight TSS would be in the ice cube

theKINGfisher
Posts: 4
Joined: September 8th, 2017, 11:26 am

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by theKINGfisher » October 6th, 2017, 9:48 am

I use to shoot those shockwaves in my Remington 700 ML but I got a TC encore FX and I want to change bullets. Those shockwaves didn’t expand nor leave a very big wound channel. So I see that Barnes is the way to go. I shoot 100grains of triple 7 (pellets-I know that’s another issue😂) should I go to 150gr of powder? And what grain bullet should I shoot? 250-300? Thanks in advance fellas!

User avatar
ICDEDTURKES
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 6405
Joined: July 8th, 2011, 9:27 am

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES » October 6th, 2017, 10:25 am

theKINGfisher wrote:
October 6th, 2017, 9:48 am
I use to shoot those shockwaves in my Remington 700 ML but I got a TC encore FX and I want to change bullets. Those shockwaves didn’t expand nor leave a very big wound channel. So I see that Barnes is the way to go. I shoot 100grains of triple 7 (pellets-I know that’s another issue😂) should I go to 150gr of powder? And what grain bullet should I shoot? 250-300? Thanks in advance fellas!
It really depends on your gun, sal and I shoot 250 TEZ. My dad hunts a swamp all shooting is 50-75 he shoots 300 grain expanders. Honestly out of all the Barnes bullets IMO the expander is the most wicked. That big hollow point is amazing. Only reason I don't shoot them after 150 groups opened up compared to TEZ orTMZ.

As for 100 vs 150, I always shoot 100. Our guns opened up with 150.
Hooks Custom Calls Pro-Staff

theKINGfisher
Posts: 4
Joined: September 8th, 2017, 11:26 am

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by theKINGfisher » October 6th, 2017, 11:14 am

ICDEDTURKES wrote:
October 6th, 2017, 10:25 am
It really depends on your gun, sal and I shoot 250 TEZ. My dad hunts a swamp all shooting is 50-75 he shoots 300 grain expanders. Honestly out of all the Barnes bullets IMO the expander is the most wicked. That big hollow point is amazing. Only reason I don't shoot them after 150 groups opened up compared to TEZ orTMZ.

As for 100 vs 150, I always shoot 100. Our guns opened up with 150.
I’ve been reading the reviews on those tmz, they seem like a sound bullet. I think I’ll try those in 250gr with 100grains of powder. As always good info from experienced, seasoned shooters! Much obliged and thanks again!

VALongbeard
Posts: 144
Joined: April 22nd, 2012, 2:19 pm

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by VALongbeard » October 6th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Once again, like icededturkes, start out with 100 grains......I have never seen the need for 150. Most guns go wild with that charge.

Start also with 250 grain barnes expanders or spitfire
t-ez's.....go to 290 or 300 grain weight if it is a little wild as well.

Just my experience....hope it helps.

User avatar
hoobilly
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 4045
Joined: August 15th, 2011, 9:15 pm
Location: Argos Indiana

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by hoobilly » October 6th, 2017, 7:04 pm

I have bought the Barnes muzzleloader packages.. and a few left. But after reading the prices of the MMP sabots and buying the corresponding Barnes in 250 grain bullets in a 20 round box from MidwayUSA, I am gonna buy them that way and hopefully wind up with a good combo in my Encore.

User avatar
OLE RASPY
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1556
Joined: July 8th, 2011, 9:06 pm
Location: KENTUCKY

Re: Federal muzzleloader bullets

Post by OLE RASPY » October 6th, 2017, 7:51 pm

VALongbeard wrote:
October 6th, 2017, 4:37 pm
Once again, like icededturkes, start out with 100 grains......I have never seen the need for 150. Most guns go wild with that charge.

Start also with 250 grain barnes expanders or spitfire
t-ez's.....go to 290 or 300 grain weight if it is a little wild as well.

Just my experience....hope it helps.
Yep I use 100 grains powder. Any more is a waste in my gun. Patterns are everywhere even though mines capable I only use 100 grains
TURKEYS
COYOTES
DEER
SQUIRRELS
(all in this order)

Post Reply

Return to “General Gun Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest