Gobbler Nation

Lovett Williams said that there is no biological reason to ever shoot a hen, and he didn't know why any state allowed it. I agree on both points, but I also realize that what is considered ethical depends on the traditions of a region and they are not the same. Turkeys don't overpopulate the way that deer can. They won't stay in a place and starve to death; they will just go somewhere with better habitat.

Having too many hens is like having too much fun - can't happen.

I agree that they probably won’t starve, but I do think Mother Nature has a way of handling turkey overpopulation via disease. I’ve never had a desire to kill a hen nor been to place where I thought it was necessary.

turkeyinstrut wrote: ↑June 5th, 2019, 1:58 pm

guesswho wrote: ↑June 5th, 2019, 12:24 pm I hunt one area that I would estimate 25-30% of the hens have beards. That area also produces multibeard gobblers at about a 1 out of four rate. Over the years I've killed gobblers there that had from 1 to 7 beards. I'm not sure if it's related to bearded hens or not, but it sure seems to me areas with higher populations of bearded hens also have a higher percentage of multibearded gobblers.

"it sure seems to me areas with higher populations of bearded hens also have a higher percentage of multibearded gobblers."

Agreed

Boy do I wish that was true. One area I hunt I get pics of say 20 hens and 4 will have beards but I have never seen a multi- bearded tom in over 15 years of running this cam and never shot one. However at a buddies lease in Texas I have never seen a bearded hen but killed at least one multi-bearded gobbler every spring for the 4 years I hunted there plus saw several more as jakes !

If shooting bearded hens is sound management practices why just bearded hens? If shooting a bearded hen has no bearing on turkey populations, would shooting a nonbearded hen not be the same? In Ohio we can take 2 gobblers per spring, should it be either or? I myself can’t see myself shortening my season with anything but a mature Gobbler. But to each his own I guess.

So seeings didn't do gobbler cup tourney this year, why not have longest bearded hen contest next year where legal. Thoughts

ICDEDTURKES wrote: ↑June 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm So seeings didn't do gobbler cup tourney this year, why not have longest bearded hen contest next year where legal. Thoughts

Hobbes_mobile wrote: ↑June 6th, 2019, 1:22 pm

ICDEDTURKES wrote: ↑June 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm So seeings didn't do gobbler cup tourney this year, why not have longest bearded hen contest next year where legal. Thoughts

No not at all, we can call it

"The First Annual Tranny Cup"

ICDEDTURKES wrote: ↑June 6th, 2019, 1:27 pm

Hobbes_mobile wrote: ↑June 6th, 2019, 1:22 pm

ICDEDTURKES wrote: ↑June 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm So seeings didn't do gobbler cup tourney this year, why not have longest bearded hen contest next year where legal. Thoughts

No not at all, we can call it

"The First Annual Tranny Cup"

Only if we score by measuring beak to tail similar to THP.

My Granddad always taught me that killing your egg layers was counter-productive. He also said if he ever heard of me killing a hen, he'd take my gun. Even though he passed a long time ago, I believe in what he said.

Jim

https://youtu.be/X0jD8LJ7qxs


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jryser wrote: ↑June 8th, 2019, 11:40 am https://youtu.be/X0jD8LJ7qxs


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thanks for posting Jim!

I personally havnet shot a bearded hen.. my daughter has, my niece has and my son has. My son shot his in the fall, I called it up with the MKW trumpet and my son had it mounted.

If I ever see a double bearded hen, I will definitely shoot and have mounted.

I agree with what they are saying, the population isn't hurt by the legally killing of the bearded hen. Have fun and hunt on!

Yessir!!! I posted a rather long comment on a different forum (seem to be a dearth of haters) that just made me feel better.

I won’t here but in summary Sam and all the THP boys are great friends and human beings; I was just sad at the divide among those of us who need NOT to be divided!! We need each other to teach, learn, and grow.

As hunters - we lose more every year - my hope is to come together, and stay together, lest we fall apart!

Here’s to getting through the next 9 months!!!!




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9 months.....Fall turkey season starts Sept 15

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jdjnicholson wrote:9 months.....Fall turkey season starts Sept 15

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Dangit I forgot! YEAH!!! Mid October for me!


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9 months? It wasn't me, no way it's mine.

jryser wrote: ↑June 8th, 2019, 12:22 pm Yessir!!! I posted a rather long comment on a different forum (seem to be a dearth of haters) that just made me feel better.
I won’t here but in summary Sam and all the THP boys are great friends and human beings; I was just sad at the divide among those of us who need NOT to be divided!! We need each other to teach, learn, and grow.
As hunters - we lose more every year - my hope is to come together, and stay together, lest we fall apart!

I happen to be one of the ones posting on that other forum about this topic. Yes, there are "haters" posting about it there. I hope I am not included in that generalization even though I have spoken out about avoiding shooting hen turkeys in the spring.

The discussion is not about whether the THP boys are good guys or not. It is pretty obvious in looking at their videos that they are,...and that they are pretty responsible hunters. The discussion is also not about hunters banding together to protect each other. While we do indeed need to do that,...it needs to be under the banner of good conservation as a foundation of that unity.

This discussion comes down to the fundamental issue about what constitutes wise wild turkey management. I am old enough where I was very much involved in the discussion regarding the initiation of spring turkey hunting. The entire foundation behind having spring turkey hunting is based on the biological premise that gobblers can be harvested without impacting the resource. That premise is based on their overall biology and breeding behavior. It has nothing to do with whether a turkey has a beard or not,...it is all about whether they are male or female. Proper,... and scientific,... turkey management dictates that females be protected during the breeding season. It is as simple as that.

Again, the only reason that bearded hen turkeys are legal is because some,...mostly inexperienced,...hunters will make mistakes in identification. Wildlife managers in some places have made the choice to let those mistakes slide so that the mistaken hen turkey will not be wasted. Once again, that is the ONLY reason.

Sure, the argument could be made in a lot of places that the loss of a few hens is irrelevant to the well-being of a particular turkey population. The exact opposite argument can be made in those places that we all know are experiencing drastic declines in their turkey numbers. The bottom line is that we should be teaching turkey hunters about making wise decisions based on those principles of proper management,...and encourage them to hunt within those scientific guidelines. An occasional case of mistaken identity is one thing. The conscious choice made by someone that goes against the fundamental principles of scientific management is quite another. We must discourage that.

At the end of the day, the one principle guideline in hunting turkeys in the spring is that males are expendable,...and females are not. It is best that we just stick with that principle across the board,...and make sure all turkey hunters understand why. Perhaps the bearded hen segment will be beneficial in the long run in educating turkey hunters about the science behind all of this.

As for the THP boys, I totally agree that their condemnation is the wrong approach to it. If anything, they should be applauded for having the courage to put it out before the turkey hunting public for discussion.

Jim

Amen on that Jim!!!


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I'm in 100% agreement w/ Jim, but stand by my initial post which initiated this discussion. Legal bird or not, I personally found it reprehensible that a seasoned, not a juvenile or apprentice hunter, would consider the sneaking and shooting of a dusting bearded hen acceptable. I know that my priorities and sensibilities as a hunter have changed as I have matured during the 39 years I've hunted turkeys, and I only hope that this discussion will cause others to reflect on their personal hunting decisions and the biological implications of their actions.

decoykrvr wrote: ↑June 8th, 2019, 5:19 pm I know that my priorities and sensibilities as a hunter have changed as I have matured during the 39 years I've hunted turkeys

Truth be known, we probably all make transitions over time in our outlooks on matters such as this. I'm sure these youngsters will do the same,...especially after all the ruckus that has been made over this particular video.

I only hope that this discussion will cause others to reflect on their personal hunting decisions and the biological implications of their actions.

Indeed, that is the outcome we should all hope for...

jdjnicholson wrote: ↑June 8th, 2019, 12:30 pm 9 months.....Fall turkey season starts Sept 15

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Ours is Oct1st!

guesswho wrote: ↑June 8th, 2019, 1:28 pm 9 months? It wasn't me, no way it's mine.

looks just like you.

Is there some proof in state mgmt plans that back the reasoning that allowing bearded hens to be killed is to protect those that might shoot one for a gobbler ?? I’ve only recently heard that, but never thought that before. It makes sense, but I’m not sure that’s correct.

Identification is the reasoning. Makes some sense for newer hunters.

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GobbleNut wrote:

jryser wrote: ↑June 8th, 2019, 12:22 pm Yessir!!! I posted a rather long comment on a different forum (seem to be a dearth of haters) that just made me feel better.
I won’t here but in summary Sam and all the THP boys are great friends and human beings; I was just sad at the divide among those of us who need NOT to be divided!! We need each other to teach, learn, and grow.
As hunters - we lose more every year - my hope is to come together, and stay together, lest we fall apart!

I happen to be one of the ones posting on that other forum about this topic. Yes, there are "haters" posting about it there. I hope I am not included in that generalization even though I have spoken out about avoiding shooting hen turkeys in the spring.

The discussion is not about whether the THP boys are good guys or not. It is pretty obvious in looking at their videos that they are,...and that they are pretty responsible hunters. The discussion is also not about hunters banding together to protect each other. While we do indeed need to do that,...it needs to be under the banner of good conservation as a foundation of that unity.

This discussion comes down to the fundamental issue about what constitutes wise wild turkey management. I am old enough where I was very much involved in the discussion regarding the initiation of spring turkey hunting. The entire foundation behind having spring turkey hunting is based on the biological premise that gobblers can be harvested without impacting the resource. That premise is based on their overall biology and breeding behavior. It has nothing to do with whether a turkey has a beard or not,...it is all about whether they are male or female. Proper,... and scientific,... turkey management dictates that females be protected during the breeding season. It is as simple as that.

Again, the only reason that bearded hen turkeys are legal is because some,...mostly inexperienced,...hunters will make mistakes in identification. Wildlife managers in some places have made the choice to let those mistakes slide so that the mistaken hen turkey will not be wasted. Once again, that is the ONLY reason.

Sure, the argument could be made in a lot of places that the loss of a few hens is irrelevant to the well-being of a particular turkey population. The exact opposite argument can be made in those places that we all know are experiencing drastic declines in their turkey numbers. The bottom line is that we should be teaching turkey hunters about making wise decisions based on those principles of proper management,...and encourage them to hunt within those scientific guidelines. An occasional case of mistaken identity is one thing. The conscious choice made by someone that goes against the fundamental principles of scientific management is quite another. We must discourage that.

At the end of the day, the one principle guideline in hunting turkeys in the spring is that males are expendable,...and females or not. It is best that we just stick with that principle across the board,...and make sure all turkey hunters understand why. Perhaps the bearded hen segment will be beneficial in the long run in educating turkey hunters about the science behind all of this.

As for the THP boys, I totally agree that their condemnation is the wrong approach to it. If anything, they should be applauded for having the courage to put it out before the turkey hunting public for discussion.

Jim

Good post!
Totally agree


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What are the fundamental principles of scientific management for turkeys. Should hens never be shot in any case?? Is there such things as overpopulation in turkeys??