Sunday hunting hits dead end in house

[ncturkey]

Sorry guys for the 10 th commandment comment mess up.

[ncturkey]

I messed up . Sorry. I meant to say Tenth commandment whcih was wrong it was 4th commandment.

So, why is it that people who share those beliefs insist on imposing those limitations on me, and dictate whether or not I find my own solace and inspiration in my time afield, and hunting???

The 10th amendment maybe?
With all due respect, I think it's a good thing that each state can pass their own laws. And I think we are showing hunters in a bad light when we pretend that it's a "right" to hunt at a time outside of those times that the law of the state we're taking game from allows.

I think a hunter should be able to choose when he hunts and when he worships.

I think a state has the right to pass hunting laws however they see fit.

If I don't like that NC only allows me to kill 2 turkeys a year, and I can't hunt till the 2nd Saturday in April, and doesn't allow me to hunt at all in the fall, then either I can poach, or go hunt somewhere else.

If I don't like that VA won't let me hunt past noon, or that FL won't let me hunt past 1pm, then I can hunt somewhere else, or poach. Or, I can respect the laws of the people of VA and FL and not pretend it's my right to hunt at times other than their laws allow me. Hunting turkeys is a priviledge, not a right.

It's one thing to try to persuade the people of a state to change their laws. But it's quite another to act like we have some right to hunt when we say we should be able to instead of what their laws allow.

Sundays, afternoons, fall, winter, earlier in the year -- none of those times are our right to hunt -- unless the state we are hunting in allows it.

Hmmm,...the Tenth Amendment, ehhh? Let's see,...what about the First Amendment?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"....not to mention that little bitty part of the constitution generally referred to as the "separation of church and state"
...You can't base an argument on one without reconciling it with the others.

[ncturkey]

Hal you make alot of sense. Thanks for responses.

Hmmm,...the Tenth Amendment, ehhh? Let's see,...what about the First Amendment?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"....not to mention that little bitty part of the constitution generally referred to as the "separation of church and state"
...You can't base an argument on one without reconciling it with the others.

There is no reconciliation necessary. I thought it was a VA law, and not a law that our federal Congress passed?? Congress is prohibitted from passing any law prohibitting the free exercise of religion. And even if this was a Federal law and not a VA law, your argument still doesn't apply. Just like VA's law that I can't hunt pass 12 noon. The can tell me I can't hunt on whatever day or time of the day or month of the year they want to.

And by the way, did you know that ALL of the original 13 states had state religions at one time? And did you know that there is no mention whatsoever of "separation of church and state" in the Constitution?

You think VA is bad, you ought to see NC. I can't hunt crows except on Mon, Wed, and Sat. So, is it my right to hunt on Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sunday too? And there are certian public game lands with the same law -- Mon, Wed and Sat only.

So, GobbleNut, seriously. You think it is your right to hunt any time you want to, in whatever state you want to?

This line of argument is a dead end. And it makes no sense. You and I have no right whatsoever to hunt on any day or any month or any time at all -- unless the state we are hunting in allows us to legally do so.

[RaspyD]

Anyone who puts limitations on the things we enjoy in life allows for our rights to become priviledges. We do not have any rights in this country. Think about it. And the people let this happen.
Sad Sad Sad.

You had the right to speak your mind. And the people did let that happen.

This brings up another discussion...is hunting, in general, a right or a privilege??

If it is indeed a right, then we should be able to hunt whatever we want, whenever we want. If it is a privilege, which I believe it is, then we should be grateful for laws that put in limitations that help to conserve the game that we are chasing. How long would hunting last otherwise?

Where does hunting on Sunday in Virginia fall??? I guess we should be thankful for the privilege to hunt Monday through Saturday.

[MKW]

South Carolina has the worst Sunday hunting laws that I've ever heard of...legal on private land, illegal on public land. How stupid is that??

Mike

You know, the more I read this topic and think on it, I'm starting to think SC has it right. I do think the states have the right to restrict Sunday hunting on State Game Lands and Federal Game Lands, but they shouldn't tell a man who owns his own land that he can't hunt it on Sunday.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
Mike

[Jaybird]

Personally, I hate the law, and I'm glad Iowa has all day hunting 7 days a week. Years ago Sunday was the only day I could spend time in the Outdoors with my kids. Saturday, like many people, I had to work, along with M-F, 9 months of the year they were in school. In the Summer was BB games every Saturday, even when I could get off. I don't need any government dictating what day I hunt or what day I worship. Really, the law on a Sunday hunting, being other relegions don't worship on Sunday, is about as against relegious freedom as it gets. If you worship on Saturday and don't hunt that day, you are pretty well screwed on the weekend, and hunting with your kids. Now this is from a Christian, who spent many Sunday mornings hunting with his kids, and scrambling to make the late service. Thankfully, I had that time.

[hawglips]

You know, the more I read this topic and think on it, I'm starting to think SC has it right. I do think the states have the right to restrict Sunday hunting on State Game Lands and Federal Game Lands, but they shouldn't tell a man who owns his own land that he can't hunt it on Sunday.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
Mike

Yeah, it's hard to argue against that line of thinking. I guess one could argue that the land may belong to the land owner, but the wildlife that use it as part of their hom range don't. I've heard that argument used, and I reckon there is some validity to it, but I don't know...

[CamoMan4025]

OK, basically it boils down to this........it is illegal to hunt on Sundays in Virginia. It most likely will not change; so if I catch you hunting in Virginia on Sundays.............I'm gonna lock you up, take your guns and smack your Momma in the mouth

[MKW]

OK, basically it boils down to this........it is illegal to hunt on Sundays in Virginia. It most likely will not change; so if I catch you hunting in Virginia on Sundays.............I'm gonna lock you up, take your guns and smack your Momma in the mouth

My Momma would kick your a$$!

Mike

[CamoMan4025]

OK, basically it boils down to this........it is illegal to hunt on Sundays in Virginia. It most likely will not change; so if I catch you hunting in Virginia on Sundays.............I'm gonna lock you up, take your guns and smack your Momma in the mouth

My Momma would kick your a$$!

Mike

[MKW]

Well, she raised 6 boys, so I don't think one donut eater would phase her!
Just saying...



Mike

[GobbleNut]

Hal you make alot of sense. Thanks for responses.

Hmmm,...the Tenth Amendment, ehhh? Let's see,...what about the First Amendment?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"....not to mention that little bitty part of the constitution generally referred to as the "separation of church and state"
...You can't base an argument on one without reconciling it with the others.

There is no reconciliation necessary. I thought it was a VA law, and not a law that our federal Congress passed?? Congress is prohibitted from passing any law prohibitting the free exercise of religion. And even if this was a Federal law and not a VA law, your argument still doesn't apply. Just like VA's law that I can't hunt pass 12 noon. The can tell me I can't hunt on whatever day or time of the day or month of the year they want to.

And by the way, did you know that ALL of the original 13 states had state religions at one time? And did you know that there is no mention whatsoever of "separation of church and state" in the Constitution?

You think VA is bad, you ought to see NC. I can't hunt crows except on Mon, Wed, and Sat. So, is it my right to hunt on Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sunday too? And there are certian public game lands with the same law -- Mon, Wed and Sat only.

So, GobbleNut, seriously. You think it is your right to hunt any time you want to, in whatever state you want to? This line of argument is a dead end. And it makes no sense. You and I have no right whatsoever to hunt on any day or any month or any time at all -- unless the state we are hunting in allows us to legally do so.

Please do not go putting words in my mouth or convoluting what I stated to suit your purpose. I absolutely believe in reasonable laws that protect our wildlife, manage hunting properly, and are based on sound wildlife management principles.

States are granted the right by the federal government to manage wildlife within their borders, (excluding migratory wildlife), and do so in the best interest of the citizens of the state. There are reasonable arguments for limiting hunting,...and then there are unreasonable ones. I personally believe that limiting hunting on Sunday because of ones religious beliefs is not a reasonable argument. Period. If you do not believe it is contradictory to the concept of separation of church and state,...fine, that is your belief and so be it. I would be willing to bet that if you took a poll,...and based on the comments that have been made here and on other forums about this issue,...you would find that you are in a very small minority of people that support your position on this.
This is not a comment on religious freedom. It is a comment on people making unreasonable laws based on their own personal beliefs that affect many, many other people that do no necessarily share that perspective. Would you support the anti-hunting community forming a "religion" based on their views,...and then petitioning the government to set aside any day of the week as a non-hunting day because of their religious views? The entire concept is ridiculous,...as it is with the existing no-hunting-on-Sunday laws. ....That is why they have been eliminated in all but a couple of back-assward states.
THE END

[hawglips]

Please do not go putting words in my mouth or convoluting what I stated to suit your purpose. I absolutely believe in reasonable laws that protect our wildlife, manage hunting properly, and are based on sound wildlife management principles.

States are granted the right by the federal government to manage wildlife within their borders, (excluding migratory wildlife), and do so in the best interest of the citizens of the state.

But you see, that's a great big negative my friend!!


The federal government granted the states NOTHING!!!!!!!!! It was the states that granted a few certain, specific powers and rights to the federal government. All the rest were retained by the states to do as they please. It ain't none of the federal government's business.

And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I was just trying to make the point that the state has every right to make their game laws anyhow they see fit -- and that I don't have any right at all to have it any other way. That's up to the good people of the great commonwealth of VA to decide how they want to handle it. It sounds like we agree on that.

There are reasonable arguments for limiting hunting,...and then there are unreasonable ones. I personally believe that limiting hunting on Sunday because of ones religious beliefs is not a reasonable argument. Period. If you do not believe it is contradictory to the concept of separation of church and state,...fine, that is your belief and so be it. I would be willing to bet that if you took a poll,...and based on the comments that have been made here and on other forums about this issue,...you would find that you are in a very small minority of people that support your position on this.

Yes, I not only believe, but know that it has nothing to do with the oft misappropriated "separation of church and state" idea. That gets back to the mistaken idea of the federal gov't giving the states rights. But that's a poly sci discussion that don't belong here so much.

VA gives people the priviledge to hunt in their state according the their laws. If we outsiders don't like it, we can hunt somewhere else. If they want to leave Sunday as a no-hunting day for whatever reason at all, it makes absolutely no difference. They are in the right, and have that right. I and other outsiders have no rights at all concerning it.

It isn't my call to decide which of their game laws are "reasonable" and which are not. I'm just thankful VA allows me to hunt in their fine state, even though they won't let me hunt there in the afternoon.

Now do I wish that VA would let me hunt past noon in the spring? Dang right I do. And I think it's just torture that FL won't let me hunt past 1pm on their pubic land. But I certainly don't think it's my right to hunt in either of those two states in the afternoon.

This is not a comment on religious freedom. It is a comment on people making unreasonable laws based on their own personal beliefs that affect many, many other people that do no necessarily share that perspective. Would you support the anti-hunting community forming a "religion" based on their views,...and then petitioning the government to set aside any day of the week as a non-hunting day because of their religious views? The entire concept is ridiculous,...as it is with the existing no-hunting-on-Sunday laws. ....That is why they have been eliminated in all but a couple of back-assward states.
THE END

Well whether the law is a good one or not is not the point for me here. And I don't think my opinion of that is any more correct than the opinion of the guy in VA that thinks it's a good law. It's all a matter of perspective. But the opinion of the guy in VA that thinks its a good law, his opinion sure carries a lot more weight in VA than mine does.

And here's what else I think about all that -- thank heaven for back-assward states -- if for no other reason than to show folks from outside that state that it's none of their business. States have been getting dumped on so much for so long now that I cheer for them whenever I get the chance!

But I personally won't let VA's back-assward no afternoon hunting rule, (or NC's no Tues, no Thurs and no Friday rules) keep me away. I'll just keep hunting VA in the morning and be thankful that camoman and his boys allow me the priviledge.

[ICDEDTURKES]

I just wish Michigan would prohibit hunting on both Saturday and Sunday and after 5pm..

[GobbleNut]

All "legal-ese" aside, and regardless of my, or your, interpretation of the "separation" and "states rights" side of things, the fact is that over 90% of the states in the union have no rules against Sunday hunting,...a rule that is totally based on religion, and nothing more. Not only that, but the great majority of the comments made here and other places indicate that a big majority of hunters, regardless of what state they reside in, think the law stinks! That in itself, no matter how you interpret state or federal laws and how they interact with one another, is the main reason the law should be overturned.
We are no longer living in the 19th century. Things change,...people's opinions change. It is time for everybody to come into the 21st century. We don't hang witches anymore!

[ICDEDTURKES]

Gobblenut vs Hawglips Chat room 8 pm.. Last man typing match, a battle until ones fingers simply will not function to type anymore.. Good thing its Friday, I can see this one going till the wee hours of the morning..

[MKW]

Gobblenut vs Hawglips Chat room 8 pm.. Last man typing match, a battle until ones fingers simply will not function to type anymore.. Good thing its Friday, I can see this one going till the wee hours of the morning..

Not too sure about Gobblenut, but Hal could argue with a fence post for a solid week! No offense, Hal, you're just a tenacious debater!
This should be much better than the Super Bowl!!

Mike

[ICDEDTURKES]

Gobblenut vs Hawglips Chat room 8 pm.. Last man typing match, a battle until ones fingers simply will not function to type anymore.. Good thing its Friday, I can see this one going till the wee hours of the morning..

Not too sure about Gobblenut, but Hal could argue with a fence post for a solid week! No offense, Hal, your just a tenacious debater!
This should be much better than the Super Bowl!!

Mike

Oh don't rule ol Gobblenut out, his drive and persistence has been shown many times.. I have seen him single handedly go toe to toe with 4 or 5 people in Call Shy and Educated turkey threads..

[GobbleNut]

All right, Tom! The underdog challenger GobbleNut receives a smidgeon of support in the fray,...regardless of how miniscule it might be. I promise I will not go down without a fight! ....Perhaps I should have evaluated my opponent more carefully. I did not know I was dealing with the Muhammed Ali of the turkey forum debating world!! Do I still get a couple million for getting in the ring?
....I have already begun my pre-bout typing dexterity drills.... Bring on the Champ!

[YellaJacket]

I don't see the reason for a debate..first, lift the ban...vote it away whatever, then those that want to hunt on Sunday can. Those that oppose it can stay home, whatever. Tomorrow is Saturday and I have to work mandatory..won't be running any beagles this weekend and instead of taking the kids out for a hunt Sunday they can stay home on the playstation. The biggest voice I've heard around home is "dont want to hear gunshots" Really? What about bows? And you actually here more gun shots without hunting because folks are home shooting off benches passing the time instead of in the woods hoping for a chance to shoot. I see no difference in taking a trout from a stream or a squirrel from a tree except you can't do both on Sunday. As far as game needing rest..thats a joke..adding that extra day of hunting doesn't add to your tags alloted on your license. I'd imagine if it were lifted I would hunt a few Sundays but it would be nice to have the option on those extended work weeks or weekends that have some home chores scheduled..

Okay..that's all I'm adding to that...
I say next we all discuss daylight savings time..

[hookspur]

Hal, you've missed my point. I'm not debating whether a state has the right to set laws. Of course they do, and I abide by whatever rules they choose. But, basing those rules on religious reasons (as the old "blue laws" are), as opposed to being based on proper game management reasons, is totally discriminatory against those who don't share your religious interpretations, which I don't. There is NO valid game management reason for these "no-Sunday" rules, and I would love to see them changed so that people who can only hunt then, or simple CHOOSE to hunt then, may have that opportunity.

As for not being able to hunt VA in the PM....you can, during the latter half of the season (May 7 - 19).

[hawglips]

Hal, you've missed my point. I'm not debating whether a state has the right to set laws. Of course they do, and I abide by whatever rules they choose. But, basing those rules on religious reasons (as the old "blue laws" are), as opposed to being based on proper game management reasons, is totally discriminatory against those who don't share your religious interpretations, which I don't. There is NO valid game management reason for these "no-Sunday" rules, and I would love to see them changed so that people who can only hunt then, or simple CHOOSE to hunt then, may have that opportunity.

No, I understand your point loud and clear. But in order for it to discriminatory, then your rights to hunt on Sunday in VA would have to be violated. Since you have no right to hunt in VA, nor does anyone else, on Sunday or any other day, then absolutely no discrimination has occurred.

I'm just saying that line of argument on the Sunday hunting issue, is bogus, IMO. It would be better to argue that there is no reason for the law, etc. and try to persuade them to change it on those grounds. But there is no discrimination in the sense of religion or views, etc.

[hookspur]

You're right on the one hand...I shouldn't have used the word "discrimination."

It's still a bogus, arbitrary rule, with no sound management strategy behind it, and it should be abolished for a plethora of reasons.

[hawglips]

You're right on the one hand...I shouldn't have used the word "discrimination."

That's all I'm saying.

No one's rights are violated. No one has been discriminated against. Nobody here is a victim. It's a bogus position to take to try and bring the 1st amendment or "separation of church and state" or anything else like that into it. A quick reality check would be for whoever thinks otherwise to file suit in a VA or federal court and see how far that gets you.

The no-Sunday hunting laws are no more a violation of any of that than the no-afternoon or no Tues, no Thurs and no Fri laws are.

[hawglips]

All right, Tom! The underdog challenger GobbleNut receives a smidgeon of support in the fray,...regardless of how miniscule it might be. I promise I will not go down without a fight! ....Perhaps I should have evaluated my opponent more carefully. I did not know I was dealing with the Muhammed Ali of the turkey forum debating world!! Do I still get a couple million for getting in the ring?
....I have already begun my pre-bout typing dexterity drills.... Bring on the Champ!

Dang. I am sorry I forfeited. My wife had me booked at a small-town country music show last night!