#6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

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duurmeehr
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#6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by duurmeehr » April 11th, 2018, 8:27 pm

Anybody have any data on the maximum effective range of #6 lead launched at 1150 fps for turkey in regards to penetration only?

I say penetration only because I know I have to have enough pattern to get the job done.

There is a lot of data on Duck Hunting Chat but it is all for heavier than lead shot nothing on lead.

With all the foliage filling out and all the shots in your face where I live now, I am kicking around running lead in the bottom barrel of the .410 because the TSS is so tight even with cylinder choke.

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howl
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by howl » April 11th, 2018, 8:37 pm

I don't know about the numbers, but that will do past fifty as tested in vivo. At the range a .410 will hold a lead pattern you might as well go 7 1/2s. You'll probably see a sufficient pattern to 20 yards or so with a full choke.

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Southern Sportsman
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by Southern Sportsman » April 11th, 2018, 10:54 pm

howl wrote:
April 11th, 2018, 8:37 pm
At the range a .410 will hold a lead pattern you might as well go 7 1/2s.
I second this.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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Spuriosity
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by Spuriosity » April 12th, 2018, 6:54 am

I agree also on lead 7.5s for the .410, but I don't see where the OP mentioned that gauge. Anyway, KPY shows lead 6s @1150 to have 1.25" of penetration in BG to 50 yds, which is about what experience shows with regards to killing range. An older study by Tom Roster suggested a max range of 35 yds, basing that on the need for at least 2.0 ft-lbs of energy per pellet being necessary to kill a turkey. But I believe that is overly conservative. I think that penetration in ballistic gel is a much better predictor of pellet performance than is ft-lbs of energy. For example, TSS 9s at 1150 fps only have 1.5 ft-lbs of energy @ 40 yds, and we know how devastating they are at distances waaay further than 40 yds, where energy has dropped considerably more. But to be fair to Mr. Roster, TSS was unknown when he was doing his testing, and it is a whole different animal than lead or even HS.

duurmeehr
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by duurmeehr » April 12th, 2018, 7:39 am

Spuriosity wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 6:54 am
I agree also on lead 7.5s for the .410, but I don't see where the OP mentioned that gauge. Anyway, KPY shows lead 6s @1150 to have 1.25" of penetration in BG to 50 yds, which is about what experience shows with regards to killing range. An older study by Tom Roster suggested a max range of 35 yds, basing that on the need for at least 2.0 ft-lbs of energy per pellet being necessary to kill a turkey. But I believe that is overly conservative. I think that penetration in ballistic gel is a much better predictor of pellet performance than is ft-lbs of energy. For example, TSS 9s at 1150 fps only have 1.5 ft-lbs of energy @ 40 yds, and we know how devastating they are at distances waaay further than 40 yds, where energy has dropped considerably more. But to be fair to Mr. Roster, TSS was unknown when he was doing his testing, and it is a whole different animal than lead or even HS.
It is in my .410. It is for the 15 yard and in shot in the off barrel. I run TSS in the primary.

I like the idea of 7-1/2 Shot. I had no idea it had enough energy. I need to pick up a box and play with patterns.

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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by Waddle Whacker » April 12th, 2018, 8:00 am

Yep....7.5’s fo sho.
Feel, don't think. Trust your instincts.

southpaw
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by southpaw » April 12th, 2018, 9:05 am

If you are looking for a 15 yard and under I would do like the others have said and go with 7.5 shot. My 870 with a fixed full choke and my hand loads of 6 shot kept a pattern that would kill to 25 (that was my self imposed limit anyway). I shot a tom at 22 yards and he was a head as if he had been hit with a 2 oz load.

Just out of curiosity, do you have double triggers or a selector? If it is a selector, how easy is it you switch to the other barrel? My weatherby ou is not too hard to change but is a little noisy for a bird 15 yards or closer. Me thinks anyway, never used it.

Jerry Jr.

duurmeehr
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by duurmeehr » April 12th, 2018, 10:41 am

southpaw wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 9:05 am
If you are looking for a 15 yard and under I would do like the others have said and go with 7.5 shot. My 870 with a fixed full choke and my hand loads of 6 shot kept a pattern that would kill to 25 (that was my self imposed limit anyway). I shot a tom at 22 yards and he was a head as if he had been hit with a 2 oz load.

Just out of curiosity, do you have double triggers or a selector? If it is a selector, how easy is it you switch to the other barrel? My weatherby ou is not too hard to change but is a little noisy for a bird 15 yards or closer. Me thinks anyway, never used it.

Jerry Jr.
Single trigger with a selector switch, totally silent.

I tested it with a hen standing at my feet looking for me to see how she would react and she never flinched.

Still waiting to test the .410 on a gobbler.

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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by Spuriosity » April 12th, 2018, 12:39 pm

duurmeehr wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 7:39 am
Spuriosity wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 6:54 am
I agree also on lead 7.5s for the .410, but I don't see where the OP mentioned that gauge. Anyway, KPY shows lead 6s @1150 to have 1.25" of penetration in BG to 50 yds, which is about what experience shows with regards to killing range. An older study by Tom Roster suggested a max range of 35 yds, basing that on the need for at least 2.0 ft-lbs of energy per pellet being necessary to kill a turkey. But I believe that is overly conservative. I think that penetration in ballistic gel is a much better predictor of pellet performance than is ft-lbs of energy. For example, TSS 9s at 1150 fps only have 1.5 ft-lbs of energy @ 40 yds, and we know how devastating they are at distances waaay further than 40 yds, where energy has dropped considerably more. But to be fair to Mr. Roster, TSS was unknown when he was doing his testing, and it is a whole different animal than lead or even HS.
It is in my .410. It is for the 15 yard and in shot in the off barrel. I run TSS in the primary.

I like the idea of 7-1/2 Shot. I had no idea it had enough energy. I need to pick up a box and play with patterns.
Yes 7.5s at that velocity maintain 1.25" of penetration in BG to 33 yds.

duurmeehr
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by duurmeehr » April 12th, 2018, 1:44 pm

11/16 oz of 7.5's out of the cylinder choke put up 102 in the 10" at 15 yards. That will work for 15 and in. After that I will switch over to the TSS out to 40.

Thanks for all the advice!

maddog3355
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by maddog3355 » April 16th, 2018, 10:31 am

I would say 50 yards. But watching some of the YouTube videos on Winchester Longbeard XR’s there saying 70 yards!!

bullethead
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by bullethead » April 16th, 2018, 11:20 am

A magic pellet will kill much farther than ever thought but it cannot be relied on to do the job every time.

Consistency is the key.
Let your patterns tell you what the shot is capable of.
Shoot at least 5 patterns at each distance when determining the maximum effective range. Then worry about what a pellet will or won't do at that max range.
Tungsten tinkerer from way back.

duurmeehr
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by duurmeehr » April 16th, 2018, 11:43 am

bullethead wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 11:20 am
A magic pellet will kill much farther than ever thought but it cannot be relied on to do the job every time.

Consistency is the key.
Let your patterns tell you what the shot is capable of.
Shoot at least 5 patterns at each distance when determining the maximum effective range. Then worry about what a pellet will or won't do at that max range.
Good advice. That's why I said in OP penetration only because I know pattern has to be there.

I hate the advertising on lead turkey loads. The hunting shows are just as bad. It leads to people shooting at way longer distances than penetration and/or pattern allows. No telling how many birds are crippled up because of it.

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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by bullethead » April 16th, 2018, 12:53 pm

I know the very good crow shooters use small shot and drop crows far out with multiple strikes. All of the pellets do not penetrate adequately,some do, but the multiple strikes amounts to more damage as a whole.

I think many turkeys are killed in a similar manner. All you need is one pellet in the eye that gets to the brain, or one to make it into the spinal column, but putting a dozen or more in that head and neck area contributes to multiple areas of damage which is conducive trauma that leads to death.

In a post death autopsy with size #6 and smaller Lead shot you'll find many pellets that are not far past the skin on the side where the shot hits, but they do help.
Lead deforms easily so using a harder antimony shot is good and a nickle plating is even better.

My best guess would be putting at least a dozen #6 lead pellets(the more the better) in the head and neck area of a life sized gobbler target consistently up to 45yds. Possibly 50yds if you have a really dense pattern and are putting 15+ pellets in that head and neck.

A 1200fps MV #6 single lead pellet probably runs out of acceptable gel penetration of 1.25" at 40-42 yards. But multiple hits (a dozen or more) should kill to 50.
Tungsten tinkerer from way back.

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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by Spuriosity » April 17th, 2018, 4:40 am

bullethead wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 12:53 pm

A 1200fps MV #6 single lead pellet probably runs out of acceptable gel penetration of 1.25" at 40-42 yards. But multiple hits (a dozen or more) should kill to 50.
Nope, 50 yds.

bullethead
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by bullethead » April 17th, 2018, 5:21 am

Spuriosity wrote:
April 17th, 2018, 4:40 am
bullethead wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 12:53 pm

A 1200fps MV #6 single lead pellet probably runs out of acceptable gel penetration of 1.25" at 40-42 yards. But multiple hits (a dozen or more) should kill to 50.
Nope, 50 yds.
Do you know what energy the #6 has at 40yds and 50yds? 1200fps.

At 1335fps a #6 lead is about 2.11ft lbs at 40yds.
At under 1200fps muzzle vel that pellet is working hard to get 1.25" of penetration at 50yds.
Tungsten tinkerer from way back.

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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: #6 Lead Maximum Effective Range

Post by poorcountrypreacher » April 18th, 2018, 10:19 am

I've considered using lead for my open barrel, but I just can't get a lead load to shoot to the same poi on either of my sxs turkey guns. I just use tss#10 in the open barrel, and leave out most of the buffer. That increases the size of the pattern considerably up close, and it would still be lethal at 40.

I switched from the tight barrel to the open Tuesday and shot my 5th AL bird at 20 yards. It hit him from the base of his neck to the top his head, and didn't put a shot in his body. I'd still prefer to have DT on the gun

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